Pissing Off Fragile Men With Us

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys can have matching Bestie tattoos.

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, there you go.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the Incoherent Fangirl,

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: where we are really going to piss off some men this episode.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So excited for this.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I have to say my name.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I forgot where I'm from. No, I didn't.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm Mandy from New Orleans and all ends if you're Southern.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I am Karin from the Pink Unicorn,

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: which I really wish was a real place.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Now say something mean.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_03]: In our timeline, it is September 12

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and in Yall's timeline, it is September 20.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Tomorrow is the spookiest day of the year.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Other than Halloween. Nice.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Sound means we have an intruder alert.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's a human intruder.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys are so excited.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_03]: We have Kyle Proust, author of How to Piss Off Men.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, 109 Things to Say to Shatter the Male Ego.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very excited about this because Boo Men.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_04]: We love that here.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So welcome.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: First thing we usually ask our guests

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: is to kind of give an elevator pitch of the book.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's pretty straightforward, but if you want to do that.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: How to Piss Off Men is a handbook, I would call it,

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps a field guide, a manual of how to piss off

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: even the most relentless mansplainers in your life.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01]: It is it covers a wide variety of different things

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_01]: that have been tested mostly on me to trigger

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and dismantle the male mind.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It was originally a TikTok series

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of people reached out to me and they said, I love these,

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: but I can't think of them fast enough, like on my feet, you know?

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I decided that we needed something

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that was that was utilitarian,

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: something that could be brought out into the world.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Pocket sized.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Pocket sized.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I really wanted because the fun thing about it

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: to so many people was the fact that people were like,

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going out and I'm trying these.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm texting these to my age dates.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, like we need we need to take this to the streets

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: in like a you know, in a movement, you know?

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we created this, you know, tiny little, you know, flip book.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I love it.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I have to grab.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I have a dog here.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_04]: My dog is here and he's I don't know if y'all can hear him.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_04]: But he's screaming because I have pissed off this man by giving you guys my attention.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_04]: But now he won't come to me.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm sorry.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_04]: He's playing hard to get.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, OK, so I've been following for years

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_04]: the how to piss off men series.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_04]: But what like what's the origin story?

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_04]: What made you want to be a menace to men?

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of always in me.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I a lot of times I go on podcasts and people say, oh, you hate your dad,

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_01]: right? That must be it.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's actually the opposite in that like my father was the like

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: sweetest and funniest person I had ever met and was so, so good

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: itself, deprecating humor, had such a sort of like, you know,

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: like he was he was very he was very I don't know what the right word.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: He was very flexible, you know?

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I got to middle school, I met all these men who started

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, boys who were becoming men who were going through puberty.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I found them all so disappointing.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I found they're like fragile and this so disappointing.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I always knew that I really I couldn't hack it with most men.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it really got kicked into high gear when I moved to Los Angeles

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_01]: because because Los Angeles is the city of of pitching yourself.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's it's the city of, you know, inflating your own stock.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would go to so many house parties and when you move to L.A.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't go to any cool house parties where there are cool people

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you go where all the other, you know, transplants who just got out

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: of film school are and I remember just being having so many things

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: explained to me by all these guys and I I just couldn't bring myself to affirm them.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't do it because I knew that if I did, they'd go out

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and they'd torture their hinge dates with whatever they had told me.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I decided that I needed to add a little sourness,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bitterness to the world.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just started it was just a reflex that I had that slowly

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I posted one on TikTok and it went super viral and someone was like,

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: do you have more of these?

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I actually have a notebook full of these.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it had always been it had always been kind of my thing

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: to the point where like when we were at bars and someone were like

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to like approach our group, I would have some of my friends be like,

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Kyle, just please don't do whatever you're going to do.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like can we have one night out where you don't fight a 40 year old?

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love it.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I just can't help it.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And so so really, this is this is kind of the gig I've been preparing for my whole life.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It's I love it.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_04]: We're glad you did.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, and it's it's interesting to, you know, when I was

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: when I was going around town and pitching this book, I had a lot of people be like,

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: well, you know, your audience is pretty much primarily women.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And and so why?

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Why isn't this we would maybe prefer this book to be written by a woman,

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: which I think was was a fair point.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I had a couple of people read it and they were like,

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, this is so much about the way in which the male mind functions.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, I have it.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And so a good a good deal of these are things that people have said to me

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and I've been like, oh, OK, good.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I've achieved a sort of academic zen with my own ego.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: How did how did you decide what made the book

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and what was just going to kind of continue living in your own brain or your own notebook?

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's interesting because some things work so much better

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: in a like delivered format.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: There were so many of these that I had that kind of only worked

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: when I was able to say them out loud.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And so a big part of it was pitching jokes to people in writing, you know,

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like sending my agents or sending my editor a joke in writing or a thing

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you can say to piss off men in writing and seeing if the comedy carried

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and seeing if people could find it funny without sort of the crotch

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of like me knowing what emphasis to put on what words.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there's little tidbits in here about like the way in which,

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, these are best delivered.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things I said was, you know, questions delivered with concern.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, I think it was it was kind of it was a little bit of,

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, spot testing and, you know, we had editors come through and read.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's funny when you when you write a book now at most publishers,

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: they have what's called a sensitivity reader and the sensitivity reader will go

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_01]: through and determine if anything might upset people.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And pretty much for everyone, she was like, this could this could upset,

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, men who do blank.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, God, with any luck, I guess, you know,

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, yeah, this is the goal.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we had like 50 to 60 like sensitivity notes.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we ended up taking like one of them.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, I was it's just because I was like, you know,

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I was I was careful not to put anything in here that I think was,

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like problematic.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, they were like, this could piss off Star Wars fans.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, thank God.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, please.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Hopefully they don't use the force on me.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_04]: All right. So I have three.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I have like been gouring my brain and watching encounters with men

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: since we knew we were going to talk to you.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_04]: One of them, actually two of them need you to like look at something.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But has anyone ever mentioned your forehead?

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_04]: And when they're like, no, the fuck, you just kind of glance up and just.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, or even like it looks a little longer than last time I saw you.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And then another one kind of leads into that.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You should probably just go ahead and lean into bald.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, man with a full head of hair even.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you seen the start of the spiral?

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's bald.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And then about hairlines in general is that it really is

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the thing where no matter how you're doing with it,

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you can find evidence that it's that your hair is leaving if you want to.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, like a lot of my the men in my family have

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of them at least full heads of hair.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And even they are like like poking at the corners.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Am I thinning?

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the last one, you were the baby, huh?

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Used to get in your way.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and my husband was the baby, but he's not the traditional baby.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So like that wouldn't land with him.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: But anybody else, they'd be like, oh, God, everybody I talk to for long enough

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: is like youngest sibling, huh?

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, sorry, I hit you with that one too.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, I I'm I know what I am.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: You know.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: OK.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is you've been an author before this.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a bit of a departure from what you used to write.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there what was kind of like the mindset going into this book versus

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: like your previous writing?

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, originally I started with fantasy novels

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and that feels like a lifetime ago, honestly.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny. Oh, oh, yeah.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I was gonna say, I don't even know if I have all three of them.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I have the ashes.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny, I think with fantasy, there's so much of a conversation to be had

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: with the audience about how things work.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting because there's so much that you have to expose it,

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but everybody lives in your world and it's it's you can't operate

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: on the understanding that like people will know what the characters know,

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and I think like that was one of the things that I think

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: like eventually I kind of started pushing away from fantasy in the sense

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: where I couldn't keep it all straight, you know, like I would go to a

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: comic con and someone would be like, well, how can they do that?

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd be like, oh, I don't know.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think about it.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I am.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. Yeah.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It's my memory is not so good because I like to have fun.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But I I would go.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would go to meet with book clubs and someone would mention a

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: character and I'd be like, I have no idea what you're talking about.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea who that is, you know, like or people would say,

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: what happens after the book?

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And he'd be like, I don't fucking know.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: That's on you.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I didn't I didn't love it here.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I'm not sure.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And people would be like, is this character gay?

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd be like, yeah, if you want him to be, you know, like,

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah, rock and roll, it's up to you, you know.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And so with this, it's very different because I think I'm

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: operating on a sort of like inherent cultural understanding.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think like there's a lot of it's there's a lot

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: of things that I was like, OK, like we all live in the world

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that we live in.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So I can hopefully hopefully say things and hope that the

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: majority of people kind of just have a general understanding

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of where I'm coming from.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, there's there's not so much narrative in this.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: There's there's little sections in which I sort of like talk

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_01]: about my own life.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the priority here with this book was not making

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: sure that it was such like a great story per se, but was

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: making sure that it was a thing that could offer

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: enjoyment to individual people and also groups of people.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the idea that this was a gift that you could give

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: someone and that they would flip it through.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And there were like things you could talk about and it could

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: instigate conversations.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the things that I really didn't anticipate.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I think when I started doing How to Fish Off Men was like,

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: how much of a conversation about masculinity it would be?

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And how much of a conversation about how gender is changing

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and how like our understanding of like where, you know,

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_01]: where we fall on the on the sort of like cultural ladder.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that a big part of it was like, OK, like this,

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this has to be funny, but this also has to open up

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: something interesting about the way in which like a male mind works.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Not that a male mind is is is different from from a woman's mind,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but just that men are socialized very differently.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And and and and sort of what that gives you and and and and how

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they utilize it against people and and how it can be turned back against them.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, so if people go to your TikTok or your Instagram, they're going to get

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_04]: your sarcasm and your, you know, let's piss off men that you're known for.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_04]: But you also have a heart.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you tell us about sparking literacy?

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: When I was touring with my first book,

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I I went to schools all around the country.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, I went to school in Grosse Pointe, Michigan

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and Naples, Florida.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And the majority of those were public schools,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but they were really good school systems and they were, you know,

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: they were like nice areas.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that those schools were well funded and the class sizes were not huge.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And as I toured, I started to understand sort of the literacy crisis

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: in a way that I had never realized it was affecting Americans, young Americans.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started researching like deeper and deeper into how literacy affects

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: everything in your life, you know, how literacy affects your ability to advocate

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_01]: for yourself, you know, and sort of the statistics that I was finding.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I realized that like if you really do want to turn someone's life around,

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: especially a disenfranchised person, like a person who didn't grow up

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in like great school systems or people who grew up in underfunded

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: school systems or just really schools that were strapped for resources.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: That if you could give them the tools to be able to empower their literacy,

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: it would make a humongous change in the way that they were able to find upward mobility.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So what we started doing is we started bringing on other authors

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that I was meeting through touring.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the idea was that we would donate visits to these schools.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We would donate books, we would donate author workshops.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We would basically I think, you know, teach young people,

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: especially disenfranchised people that literacy is not only essential,

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is also a way to open up so many different kinds of world views.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It is probably I think the most essential skill you can have in the modern world.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, we've been operating for a very long time.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: We took a break during COVID because we had a little bit restructure

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because of course we couldn't go into schools.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think hands on workshops was a big part of what we were doing.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So we kind of transitioned a little bit more into Zoom.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But but yeah, I think one of the things that I realized,

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: which I think people who don't tour in this way

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe don't have as good of an understanding of or people who make policy

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: don't have an understanding of is that like the kids in the underfunded

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: school systems are not different from kids in well funded school systems.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: They're just as smart.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: They're just as excited and they're just not there.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And like there's and like young people are so wonderful.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a certain expectation of what their life is going to be

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_01]: or what their life is is on track to become.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I think really, really creates a really deep wound, a deep hurt in people.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was really important to us to, you know, bring things

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_01]: that these well funded schools were getting to, you know, schools that weren't.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And you were really young when you started this too, right?

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was I was 18.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I was 18 years old.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was yeah, it's it's yeah, I think, you know, literacy reading,

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: reading in general was the biggest part of my life for my entire life.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so I think it felt very natural to me.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I said like, oh, like I just have to, you know, get these tools

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: as in as many hands as possible.

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's really admirable.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, especially as an 18 year old, you're not at most

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: 18 year olds aren't thinking about how they can essentially change

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: the world because, you know, most 18 year olds are generally more self

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_03]: centered than that.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, they're the center of their world, which you should be.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, we should hear about other people too.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Totally. Yeah.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think a big part of nonprofit work in general is asking yourself

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: like how in which ways was I like blessed when I was young?

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like what what what tools were given to me that really helped

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: me out and like finding the gratitude in that and being like, OK,

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: how do I circumnavigate these systems that are in place to deny those things

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to other people? And and yeah, you know, I credit my my mother a lot

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: with a lot of that too, because she was touring with me and she was she was

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: very, very she was also, you know, incredibly shocked by the state of things.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that we were witnessing and I think it was sort of our brainchild

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_04]: to create this thing. I love that. You go ahead, Karen.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So we've talked about like your writing and, you know, all of that.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But you're also an actor.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Where what? That's what I was going to ask about.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to ask about rabbit.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: What came first?

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you have a favorite among the two or is it kind of their

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: all your love children?

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I got put into acting and into theater because

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: my parents just could not get me to shut the fuck up.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like and they they were like he we need to get him tired

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01]: somehow and they couldn't do it with sports.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So they said, we'll go to theater.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I always grew up acting.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think yeah, the way I describe it to people is if someone's a

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: cow you can never act again.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be like losing a finger.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it would be something that I always thought about.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I could go on.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I think if someone said you can't write anymore,

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be like, you know, losing an arm, you know,

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: like I'd go on. But you know, I I I it is so much a part of how I live.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny. I went to acting school in college.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I did that was because after the book tour when I was 18,

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I had taken a gap year and my parents were like, you don't have to go to school

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_01]: if you don't want to. Like this is, you know, this is going really well, you know,

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: don't feel pressured.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought about that.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought about just being an 18 year old

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and all of a sudden just being an adult in the world.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, I don't I can't do that.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I've never had alcohol, you know, like I.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So I I I applied to acting school because I was like,

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: well, this will be fun and it'll be easy.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was before I knew that like acting is like the hardest.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So hard.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny that it's like acting is a thing that I've been doing my entire life

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and people ask me like, how is it done?

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I don't really know, you know, like it's it's it's such

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: a difficult thing to explain to people.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So what I was really doing in college, I think was I was

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: taking a really active and considered look at the way that actors speak

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: because I decided I wanted to if I like wrote theater or I wrote film

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: or I wrote television, I wanted to be an actor's writer.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I wanted to I wanted to write for a great performance.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was kind of gathering the skills and the tools to act myself.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of it for me was like watching people

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and observing the way in which performance happens and asking myself

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: like, how do I write in a way where it feels seamless to actors?

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Because my experience has been like sometimes I show up to things

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and I realized they haven't really thought about the script, you know,

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and they haven't really thought about the language, you know,

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and I would ask, you know, writers, I'd say, why is it?

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Why is it this word?

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, why is it in a different word or why is my character saying this

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and finding out that people weren't quite sure.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And so really wanting to avoid that, you know, I wanted to I wanted

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to write things where actors felt like there was there was nothing

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: they could say other than the line that was written.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's that'll be a constant, you know, crucible for me

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: for the rest of my life is is is writing writing language

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: that actors like to, you know, like to speak.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_04]: You're a playwright, too, which is so wild to me to like writing

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_04]: books is hard enough.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: But having to write stage direction and lines and all of it.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a little easier in my in my yeah.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's the thing.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The thing about writing a book is you have to do everything

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: like like you you are all of your words are the product,

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and I think that when you get in the theater,

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, everybody kind of like, you know, field tests your

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_01]: words for you, you know, and you kind of get this like workshop

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: phase. And when you get into film, you know, film is on most

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_01]: levels a collaboration of hundreds of people, you know.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And so so I do think the hard thing about writing a book is

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that it's like top to bottom the entire experience is determined

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_01]: by the language.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think with film and with theater, everything is an

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: interpretation of the language.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think with theater and film specifically, the real

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: big thing for me has been finding collaborators who I trust,

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like and with with writing novels, you know, you

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_01]: have your editors and your sensitivity readers.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But but really at the end of the day, it's kind of comes

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: down to you.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, yeah, I think with, you know, with

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: film, there's, you know, there's people lighting every

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: shot, and there's makeup and those costumes and and

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's kind of coming together to make the story

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01]: happen. But yeah, I do think the thing that that's really,

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: really, really difficult about theater that isn't a part of

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: anything else is you have to watch people say your

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: words hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh boy. That's that's the hardest part is sitting in

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the audience and sitting around people.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I started being in my place because I just couldn't

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: handle watching like and like, you know, I

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the first ever play I put up, we had two shows and

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the first show was our kind of late night show.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And the light the late night show is packed and

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's drunk because it takes it starts at 11

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: p.m. And so I go to the late night show and it's a

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_01]: comedy and I it felt seamless to me, you know,

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: like I just sat there and I was like, I'm the best,

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: man, I rock.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the next night was in the middle of

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: the day of matinee and there were like five or six

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: people in the audience and really hearing every word

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: like hang in the near silence of the theater.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I'll die.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I just believe.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like intermission I went and like, yeah,

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: intermission I went and you know, had a couple

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: cocktails because I was just like, I got it.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough, you know.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the one thing about writers,

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: it's really hard is you get to a certain point

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: where every word becomes very precious to you.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And you hit a moment where the play is going

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: on and you're like, well, that's not the right word.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_01]: That should be a different word.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you finish and everyone said that was great.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Get out of here.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Leave. Oh my gosh.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: All you do is lie.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_03]: That yeah, that that's a fair point.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never thought of it that way.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: No. Now I'm just like, OK, I'm I'm OK where I'm at.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I I know a lot of playwrights who put it out into the world

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they vanish.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a trade off.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it's instant feedback.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, people, you know, people you you hear people's reactions.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You hear whether or not people laughed every line.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And but when you write a book, it's like, all right, the book came out

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: with the books for 100 pages and it's going to take people a couple of weeks.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, your reviews won't come until the end of the year.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And you wrote it like three or four years ago, you know.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And and so that's tough because that's just a really long feedback loop.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, people people come to you and they say like,

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: well, why'd you do this?

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, I don't remember anymore.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry. I just I don't know. Yeah.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: What is that?

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Did I do that?

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, we don't want to keep you along, but we do have a couple of questions

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: we ask all of our guests.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the moment where everything you've ever consumed is going to leave your brain.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a segment on the podcast, which we call Fictional Boyfriend of the Week,

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: where we think a fictional character that we are like obsessed with

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and it doesn't necessarily have to be a boyfriend.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I've had a fictional granny.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: We've had fictional pets, fictional found families.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any characters that you're like really vibing with?

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You think people should know who these people are.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: This could be book, show, movie.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm, that's a really good question.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It's just like, what's a book?

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like a book, really. I'm like, have I ever seen a movie?

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like looking at my bookshelf.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I'm not even saying I didn't write.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the tough thing for me is that what makes a to me

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: an incredibly compelling character is none of the traits that make a good boyfriend.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was thinking of like,

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe one of the greatest characters ever written

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: is from The Secret History by Donna Tartt is Henry Winter.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Henry Winter.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you guys read The Secret History?

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: The Secret History has sort of created this dark academia subgenre

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and like it's weirdly perhaps about Donna Tartt's life

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and like, you know, it's about this sort of like little group

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: of classics majors at the super elite college

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and they end up murdering one of their classmates.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not a spoiler. That's on the first page.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And Henry Winter is this guy in the group

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: who is sort of in charge of the group.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like six, five, and he's super broad

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's like speaks 10 languages.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like sort of an indomitable human being

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and like his intelligence is completely unmatched by like anyone around him.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think everyone in the book tracks how well off they are by proximity to Henry.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And however, the thing that I mean, like I wouldn't want to date this guy.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I wouldn't want to date a guy who's like speaks 10 languages

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and yeah, he'll say he'll say he'll say people if he has to.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And the other character I was thinking about is Tom Wamskamp from Succession.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Succession. Have you guys seen Succession?

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's on my list.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we've got different culture.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, Tom Wamskamp is like the

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: he is a he is a man who status changes based on who he's talking to.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So like if someone is beneath him in the totem pole,

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: he will abuse them endlessly.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But with his wife, he is such a sniveling sort of weasel.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like the actor calls him a grease stain of a human.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But sort of the ultimate idea of Succession

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: is that like there's all these like, you know, sort of like bad ass well off,

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like really, really, really forward,

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, energetic people.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But the person who actually can make it ahead

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: in like a multi-billion dollar corporation is a guy who has zero

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: allegiances and has no fucking idea what he's doing.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And his the thing that's really brilliant about the performance is that

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: he's constantly assessing where he is in the totem pole.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And if the status shifts, he'll shift with it.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And he'll like he'll immediately become this like sniveling little loser.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, he he does this thing with his like interns,

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: which is called human furniture,

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: which is where like he like puts his legs on, you know, like interns,

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_01]: like as if they're footstools.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, if you've seen the show, you know, he's not a great partner.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But as a fictional character, I kind of love it.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_04]: You're like, yeah, this is great to watch.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I think the the I mean,

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the great boyfriends are rarely in the book.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: They're pages of the book.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: You guys have you guys have like a good example

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: like the perfect fictional boyfriend.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Aaron from Shatter Me, Aaron Warner.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an Aaron Warner early.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_04]: We have matching tattoos. It's serious.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, damn, that is pretty serious.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_03]: They're very serious.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't tell her husband.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_04]: He knows he paid for the tattoo.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_04]: That was a Valentine's Day gift.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, another one that we always ask is like we we obviously love your book.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't read these yet, but they are like very soon on my list.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_04]: But what are you reading?

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_04]: What are you recommending or like favorite books?

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Cersei by Madeline Miller

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is really, really, really phenomenal.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I think like Song of Achilles had its humongous big TikTok moment, you know,

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and every and Song of Achilles is an incredible book.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing that I really love about Cersei is like it's a

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a story that follows one character over thousands of years,

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: which I think is just remarkable and wonderful.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And it really recontextualizes so many characters from like Greek mythology.

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's this kind of trend, not trend,

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: this sort of movement, I would say, of like women

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_01]: reinterpreting the myths of old and like lending so much nuance to it.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: A Thousand Ships by I think Natalie Hayes is also like that.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's about the women of the Trojan War is really phenomenal.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, yeah, The Secret History by Donna Tart is for me,

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe the book that I most commonly return to.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those books where when I tell people that I've read it,

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_01]: they're like, yeah, of course you have.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're like, yes, I can tell now instantly where you got your personality.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm reading right now.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to get through all the sort of classics.

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm reading The Sun Also Rises, which is Hemingway's first book.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's great. It's fine.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's Madeline Miller.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you read the short story?

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like Galatea.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Galate, I don't know how to pronounce it.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_04]: It's about this woman.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to say she's like made of stone.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_04]: She can't move or something.

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_04]: She's like controlled by her husband.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: She ends up pregnant and having a baby

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's trying to make the daughter just like her.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And so she finds a way to not be stone.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't really remember how, like what her specific thing was.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's a short story and it was phenomenal.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's she's the greatest.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the things that she does that is so phenomenal

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: is that she like she really does do the work to ask herself,

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: like what is the true like emotional core

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: of what this character would be feeling?

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because, you know, in myth, it's pretty much, oh,

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and then this character did this and this character did this.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we don't get much of of like this.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: The psychology behind these characters.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Why did he do that?

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like there's this thing that she has in Cersei

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_01]: where she talks about Odysseus, you know,

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and the idea of Odysseus like blowing around in the,

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_01]: in the, you know, a GNC for like 25 years.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And she talks a lot about his just infinite frustration.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the idea that like they used to have these giant

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: like spokes or not like giant steel like rods

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: that they would hammer into the earth

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to like ground ships to the beach.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And she talks about him like one of those, you know,

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: like like steel pieces of equipment

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and the idea that even after 20 years,

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: something as like direct and and and and and and firm

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: will get brittle and will start to bend.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And the idea of this like incredibly strong and, you know,

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: like this is one of our Greek heroes,

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: like the fact that he is just kind of losing his mind

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: from the amount of like, you know, hardship

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and that he's been through and like the confusion

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and the and the aimlessness.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's just it's just really phenomenal

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's it's a thing that you don't really get

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_01]: if you do like read the old myths, you know.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. You know.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_04]: She's a wizard.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That one.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_04]: She's a word wizard.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of word wizards,

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: what what comes next for you, Kyle, after how to piss off men?

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any other works?

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have a I have a two book deal.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there's another one coming.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a book that I wrote in college.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It'll probably end up being the book.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to decide.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's funny because, you know, we've

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: we've just been full speed ahead on this

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and we haven't really talked about what exactly

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the next one will be.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But I wrote a sort of a like a primary source

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: document almost like if you were to find a journal

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01]: in this kids attic attic, attic.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, attic, you know, the top part of a house.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's about it's about a a poetry student

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: who gets banned from poetry because his therapist

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and the mental health people working with him

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: think he's far too volatile to be like

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: entertaining his own emotions anymore.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And so he starts making lists.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like everything in his life broken down

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: into like numerized and like quantified digits.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's the idea of like, are you any different

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: if you're really emotional and you're making

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: a list of ways to get better or if you're writing poetry?

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And and so, yeah, I think that'll probably be next.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So exciting. I can't wait.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, it's I cannot wait.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, even even from being in this interview,

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, wow, there's kind of like I've pivoted a lot,

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, from like, you know,

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: fantasy books, you know, TikTok to acting, you know,

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and and so it's always hard for me to say

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: like what exactly is coming next.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But but I do know from a, you know,

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: there will be one more book next year

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and then probably a few books after that.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Very exciting.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, speaking of Karen's got bad news to tell you.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We do have to let you know that unfortunately,

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_03]: now that you've been on the podcast,

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: you're actually legally obligated to come back

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03]: for all future book releases.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, listen, I read the contract.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I knew what I was doing.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Most people don't read the fine print.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They don't.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, right.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a team of lawyers off off camera right now,

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: just nodding at me.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Just like, yeah, you got to go back.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's great.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be back.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We can't wait.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for being here.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_03]: This episode is airing after the book comes out.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So everybody head to your bookstore

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and pick up how to piss off men.

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing and hilarious.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And then use it, put it into practice.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, take it into the world.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Knock down a peg.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we want to see and tag us when you do do it

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: because we want to know how it works.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Destroy the fabric of society, please.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Love it.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Kyle, for hanging out with us.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been so much fun.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you guys.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk to you soon.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: See you. Bye.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Did that really just happen?

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: That was so much fun.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I had followed him for years.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_04]: That is so crazy.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I adore him.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I adore him.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I love him.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That was amazing.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so happy.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and like watching his TikToks,

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_04]: you think like, oh, he's just a sarcastic,

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_04]: like funny comedian.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_04]: No, like he's a playwright.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And you know,

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_04]: he can be serious too.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like a serious, he's got a frigging fantasy series.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He's got one.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I love how he was just like,

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, this is why I didn't write fantasy

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: because I can't remember shit.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I know.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in the throes of editing fantasy

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm like, good luck, girlfriend.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_04]: What have I done?

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You should take, take, you should do what,

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: what, what E.D. Asher does

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and have an encyclopedia.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Reference back to you because that sounds amazing.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I meant to say this when Kyle was with us,

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_04]: but he's no longer with us.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't say it like that.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Seventeen years old.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_04]: USA Today was calling him a voice to be heard.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Love it.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Seventeen years old.

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Wild.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: That's insane.

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And we got to talk to him.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_03]: No big deal.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_03]: We're so cool.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The coolest.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That sound means we have another intruder alert.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a repeat offender.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes it is.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_03]: We have Dominic Lim back.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: This time we're talking about

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Karaoke Queen friends.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I just am in love with this cover so much.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, Dom.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: We're so glad to have you.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You know how it goes.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Let us know or let the listeners know

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_03]: who haven't heard of it.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Give us your elevator pitch.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So Karaoke Queen is my second book

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and I do want to do a shout out to Abigail Lee,

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: who was the cover artist for Karaoke Queen.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's getting all sorts of amazing love on it.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: The contour on her face.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the details.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_04]: The details.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she knocked it out of the park.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Well my editor, Alex Logan, forever

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: was trying to find someone who has done a lot of art

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: of drag queens and Abigail has done that.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So she's experienced.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, yes, my book is about a drag queen.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a it is a it is it's technically

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: a second chance romance at the outset of romance novel.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It is a rom-com.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It is it is definitely a romantic comedy this time.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is about an ex-drag queen named Rex Araneta

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: who has quit drag and has moved on with his life

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: but then runs into his ex-boyfriend from Indiana University

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: who is now managing a bar in Oakland called the Pink Unicorn.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And the bar is not doing so well.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So Rex and his like wanting to please the ex

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and try to get back together with him besides to pitch

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_02]: a karaoke night and which would be hosted by

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: his drag alter ego Regina Moonby,

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: except he doesn't want Aran, the ex,

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: to find out that he's a drag queen.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So the book is all about him like hiding his identity

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but trying to get back together with his ex and going through all these

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: shenanigans that happen.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will expect to try to be in two places at once.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, lots of shenanigans.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Lots of shenanigans and so yes.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's a love letter to drag.

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a love letter to the Filipino community.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So and a little bit more lighthearted than my first book,

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: which had, I think, more tears and fall.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:37:22] Fair, fair.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you kind of segwayed into the first question I have written down.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_04]: This isn't your debut anymore.

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You're a seasoned pro now.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_04]: So what has been different about the writing and publishing

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_04]: process this time around now that you have, you know,

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_04]: you're not new anymore.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_04]: You're not a new.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a great question.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But so in terms of so there's the writing and the publishing

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of the publishing part so much easier because I knew what to expect.

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I know what the schedule is like and what things would be demanded of me when.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But the writing part was so much harder for the second book

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because my first book was, you know, sort of I wrote it in my spare time.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It took me three years because I didn't I wasn't beholden to anyone.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And the second one was fully under deadline.

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I blew past like all 10 of them that they gave me over and over again.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, ideally it was supposed to have come out in June.

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But it definitely did not that did not happen.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was a lot harder because I had only had the barest

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: like outline of the book when I sold it and I didn't work on it at all

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: during the debut of all three of them.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like at all.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was supposed to be

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_02]: because I was so like, you know, I was involved in like all the promo

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was just really it was sort of like I wanted to focus on my my first child.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to experience that.

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I really did.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you only have one debut.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: One debut. Yeah.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel all of that.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So I tried to make up for lost time.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was it was a lot faster writing this second book.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had to depend on my editor a lot more for the second book.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Shout out to Alex. Yeah.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So where did where did the idea for this story come from?

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It actually kind of came from my husband.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of sparkly idea in my head.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But I had wanted to explore something about drag and whatever I was going to write next

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because drag appeared in my first book and I sort of wanted to carry it into the second,

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, me and I like to write about identity and gender identity

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and gender expression.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's always interested me.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was also what was happening with drag at the time was also top of mind for me

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: in that a lot of anti-drag legislation was happening and all this bizarre drag

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: backlash that sounds like a harmful for kids.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just it's so mind boggling.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you take a step back and you look at it,

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you know that there is an intersection there between that and like

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: being trans and gender expression.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And people are definitely afraid of that.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So they sort of like segway it into drag and they want to make people

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_02]: afraid of that as well.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are connections, but they are completely different, right?

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to explore a little bit of that and how it would affect someone

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: who is going through all of that by themselves.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what decisions do they make?

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Do they hide who they are?

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And then what happens when that affects their love life?

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when they meet someone who might not be accepting of that

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and what decisions do they make in order to proceed with our relationship?

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I really wanted to write a rom-com.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And like in a rom-com, the comedy arises out of the situation.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So I felt like this was more

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: is going to propel a lot more comedy than my first book.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, definitely lots of comedy.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Karaoke Queen has some pretty heavy hitters that provided blurbs too.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_04]: What was that news like to have like literary all stars?

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Like everybody knows these names.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Be like, yes, not only will I read and blurb your book, but to like it enough

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_04]: to write blurbs for it.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I just I'm so well, first of all, for anyone listening to this

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and who hasn't seen the book, it was blurbed by on the cover

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: specifically Christina Lauren, Christina Lauren.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in the back, Ali Hazelwood and Abby Mendes.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, come on.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Like everybody in romance knows those names.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_04]: What a pinch me experience.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's funny for the first book, I was like, get your blurbs.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I literally know zero people.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, so those words were gotten for me.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But the romance world as you well know is so supportive and so loving.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And the authors love to get together.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I met all of these people at Steamy Lit.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was also blurred by Julie Soto and Sid Carter.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And but those primarily those three, I met them all at Steamy Lit.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I really got to know Abby at bookmarks in North Carolina.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was a matter of just like I met them.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I had fun with them.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really get to talk to Christina Lauren that much.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So that one was my editor had to do some pulling for me

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_02]: because I really got to talk to Christina Lauren that much.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But they there were so kind to like say yes.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And they they all said yes immediately.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was fantastic to have an actual karaoke queen and Julie Soto blurbing this.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Like so much of a great endorsement is that.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so those of you who don't know,

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Julie Soto is a rock in the singer.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's her background.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: She she that's why we bonded because we both have a background in theater and singing.

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, when we did bookmarks in North Carolina, I took Abby.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by the way, Abby Jimenez is also a really good singer and she will fight you.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And I did not record it.

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wish I recorded, but she did sing like a Fleetwood Max.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was like, girl can sing.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what? She's holding out.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what? The mother of Maya, I believe it.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I believe it.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, her daughter.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: From somewhere. Yeah, she had to get it some from somewhere.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, her daughter is is a usable prodigy.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, brilliant.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: She's a genius.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So it had to come from somewhere.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: She's a great singer too.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, Jolie is.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she's she's amazing.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so cool.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, fun.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So I would like to know why there are no recipes in this book.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there was so much food and I need all of it.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, what the heck?

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What the heck?

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you holding out on us?

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I have to like save something for my newsletter that I finally

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: am putting out after like a year and a half.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Fair, fair.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so for the first book,

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Alex wanted to put in like everything in the kitchen sink

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and then might in that book.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you recall, it's got like music programs

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and a letter to the reader and a recipe and like everything.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So this book, we were not as ambitious.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Really, let's just get it out.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's fairly good.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just kidding about are the are the recipes that they're

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: like the food that they're making in there.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have like family recipes for that?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I definitely can.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will be putting them in my newsletter for sure.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I love to cook.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We always joke that like any book that makes us hungry,

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_04]: we're like we wish there was like a delivery service where it's

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_04]: like you get the book and you get the dish.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can eat anything.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, fresh literary edition.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, wait, I'm trying to think.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_03]: This is like truly like I feel like there's a co lab

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that needs to happen between publishers and Hello Fresh.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, that would be killer killer.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I think the first time we came up with it was like fake dates

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and mooncakes or it might have been a Lauren Congessa book

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_04]: where we were like, I need this delivered.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Lauren and her food.

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_04]: My god.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you know that Lauren and I have the same editor.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, there's a common thing here.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_04]: We're blaming your editor for not providing delivery.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Where is my food?

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, I can't.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to I was going to learn about a secret.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, that my editor just acquired a new like not a new author.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_02]: He's an indie author, but a really, really well known

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and well loved indie author.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't say because it's not technically out yet.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're a tease.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We're very good at keeping secrets.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's that.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Excited to look for.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Excited to see that.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he is.

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know what I mean?

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it is.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So we know in karaoke queen there's I mean, it's a romcom.

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's fun and comedy, but it's also I mean, there's some heavy.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_04]: There's some stuff.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Heavy experiences.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I have a very dear friend who has been a drag queen.

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And we grew up together.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_04]: He's been a drag queen for about 10 years.

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And he went through a lot of some similar stuff as Rex.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, I can't speak for another community,

[00:46:32] [SPEAKER_04]: but I can't wait to share this book with my friend

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_04]: because I feel like that shared experience will be so special

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_04]: because it's like how I lived this.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And so many other people out there.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_04]: What does that feel like to know that people will relate to Rex?

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Rex's experience.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you for bringing that up.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And it is something that I think many drag queens will relate to.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But also it's an experience that so many will let me just say first

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: for so many gay men specifically because it is it's not it's

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it's really about femininity and being femme as well.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then so as we all know, so many gay men are not naturally masculine

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and that there's this huge like pressure on men in general,

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but also gay men and from within the gay community itself

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to be masculine presenting right to be butch.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Like that's what's valued.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what's sexy and that anything that's fem or feminine is less than.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, surprised because it's related to women.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, you know, it is this I I wrote about it

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_02]: because I experienced it myself, you know, growing up.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I experienced that sort of like familial pressure

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: to be more masculine, that pressure from schoolmates

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: to be more masculine, to push my voice down,

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: to not walk a certain way, to dress a certain way

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because it was survival really.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you didn't want to get beat up.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You didn't want to get made fun of.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And so those are the things that drag

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_02]: means go through on a daily basis.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. But a lot of gay men as well.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was it was something I definitely wanted to write about

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because I think a lot of people will be able to relate to that.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, for sure.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Special. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So we talked about this a little bit

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_03]: because I was DMing you the whole time I was reading this book

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_03]: because I have no chill.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So there are a couple people in here

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_03]: that I could see maybe spin-offs of the story following along.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Do we have any and I guess this goes into like what do you have next?

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, do we have any plans for anything

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: continuing to be set in this world, which by the way, if anybody.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, nobody's read it yet, but for people who are going to read it,

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: it is it is there is notable reference

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that will set it in the same world as your debut.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: So are we going to see more in this world,

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: especially with this found family?

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I adore them all so much.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they will.

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I haven't sold the third book yet technically forever

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because it was a two book contract, but they they certainly want it.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just I think it's just a matter of signing the contract and blah, blah, blah.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So but in fact, I just turned in my synopsis or my outline

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: so that they can check it out.

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But is it isn't the same universe?

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It is going to have a lot of the same.

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not going to be about any of those characters.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be about two completely new characters.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of those characters from the past two books

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: will show up in the third book for sure.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, yeah.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: That's really especially a coupling that is hinted at in the second book.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We will come to fruition in the third book.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I have thoughts and I don't want to say anything because of spoilers.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But we can talk later.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just like.

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Other than like knowing we were going to talk to you and getting my copy.

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_04]: The first thing I heard about this book was Karen

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_04]: like raving about how you are truly someone who either lives in or knows the Bay Area.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_04]: She was so happy.

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_04]: She was so happy.

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I just had I'm sure she DM'd you about it, but she was so happy

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_04]: that I had to tell you she told me about it too.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_04]: She was like, he knows.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He knows.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's always surprising to me that I mean, you're Karen,

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not the only person to have told me this.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've been told this by several people and it's kind of shocking to me

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: because like the Bay Area is like it's it's not Kansas.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Like so many people live here.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe we have this experience and I'm always surprised when people go,

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so like I was just so thrilled that you, you know,

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: portrayed my hometown or like a town like my hometown in Bay Area.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I guess I guess it's not it's just not written

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_02]: that often as much as I think it is.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, definitely not in like New York or LA or whatever.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think we live in our a very specific kind of bubble here in the Bay Area

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_03]: where we're like everything that and maybe it's just because like everything

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: that we see majority wise is San Francisco.

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's what people think of when they think of the Bay Area at

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_03]: San Francisco, but like so many of us.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And I yes.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't really write about San Francisco or about these things.

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_04]: For listeners, the reference was Aaron called it Frisco, right?

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, wait a second.

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Or at a rate, wait a second.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Wait a second.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_03]: The way I the way I posted it, I think I posted that to my stories

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_03]: in the way that all of like the Bay Area people that are on my feet

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03]: were like, I relate to this and I'm like, I'm going to start yelling at people.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like Frisco is a city in Texas.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_03]: We are in California.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_04]: So this is how this is how I feel when when I've told you before

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_04]: that people think that we call Atlanta ATO, you can do that like in your

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_04]: text message just to shorten it.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody in Georgia is going to ATO like nobody says that out loud.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_04]: No, like that's weird.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you're not from here.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Clear town.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's the great thing about it.

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, those sort of like hometowns sort of that knowledge

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that yeah, no one else is going to know about that.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're kind of like, you shouldn't say but also it's kind

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of cool to like that's like our thing.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we know.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_03]: You're in on the inside, Joe.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So much fun.

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's yeah, it's like a fun little Easter egg.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Easter egg?

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Like if you know, you know.

[00:52:54] Good time.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So we have a segment on the podcast, which you know very

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_03]: well that we call fictional boyfriend of the week where we

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_03]: pick out we pick out a fictional character and we love them

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and we tell everybody about them.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So do you have somebody that you want to tell us about this

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_03]: time around?

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God, you have asked me this question.

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think three times and I'm always like, it's literally what

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_03]: is a book?

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Have I ever read?

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03]: When you get put on the spot, everything just disappears.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, what is what is that?

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, people what?

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know that people exist.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_04]: fictional or otherwise.

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me think about this.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the last time you asked me, I couldn't even remember

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: his name.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It was the guy from Bridget's.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: The way that the way that everybody at SteamyLitCon when

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I came up to them was like what?

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I'm sorry.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I can circle.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_03]: There are lots of people I can talk to.

[00:53:55] Okay.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's do this.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Circle back.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Can we circle back because I'm going to like think about

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_02]: it in the back of my head and then I will have an answer

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to you.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, this one might be just as difficult.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Or it might help or it might help.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_04]: It might help.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So we know we love your books.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_04]: We love your books.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to tell everybody to read your books.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_04]: But what are you reading?

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_04]: What are you recommending?

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Or like, what are your favorite books that everybody

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_04]: should read?

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I should have been more prepared.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_04]: We need to start telling people like, Hey, these

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_04]: are two questions.

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_04]: No, it is the fun.

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is the question that everyone asks.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So we all know we're supposed to be prepared for this

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_02]: question.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what's funny?

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the funniest part is that the people that

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_03]: have been on more than once are the ones who get

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: the most flustered when we ask it.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's the funniest part.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we already answered it.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So we're like, oh, we're not doing that again.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: It's still here.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember which Bridgerton brother.

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_04]: It's still...

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_04]: From Bridgerton.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Played by, hold on.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I know the actor, Jonathan Bailey.

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Jonathan Bailey, that's the guy.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Anthony.

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Anthony.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think he's my favorite.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's the character.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, that is my provisional answer for question

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: number one, but I still I'll give you a better one

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: in a second.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't realize he was going to be in Wicked.

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how I missed it until I saw

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: like the extended trailer and then I'm like, oh my God,

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_04]: it's the other way.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is the best, the best birthday present is Wicked.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, is that?

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that when your birthday is?

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: My birthday is the 26th, so it's like comes out

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_03]: right before my birthday in November.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm so excited.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I host Thanksgiving and I'm like going to kick

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_04]: my family out so I can go to the movies.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, all right, you'll have your turkey.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Get out now.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_02]: See, we used to do that in my family and it stopped

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: after it stopped when the pandemic hit.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But we would always go out to the movies afterwards.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Like all of us, we would go to the movie.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It was usually like a family fun, family fun.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw like all the Hunger Games movies together.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we saw it.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, oh, by the way, about Wicked.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say this about the Wicked trailers?

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just say this?

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I cried for the first trailer because let me tell you why.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That scene where Glinda turns around and she was like,

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_02]: oh, you're green.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's Cynthia Ribo and she is like so like she's black.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Like she she'd be black.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: She's black.

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, she goes, oh, I am.

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And but it took up completely.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, how did I never see this metaphor before?

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I never saw it before.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then she was like, oh, I am.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just like I started.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I literally started crying.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this story has taken on a completely different

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: meaning with her casting.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like getting chills right now.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I have goosebumps, like literally goosebumps right now as you're talking.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, yeah, like it's special for me because my nieces, they live with me half

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_04]: of the year when their dad is working overseas and they're biracial

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and they love like their Wicked girlies too.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And one of them said, honestly, I want to get up really early on

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanksgiving and paint myself green.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And she was like, and I'll just do I'll do Thanksgiving green.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And then we'll go to the theater and I'll be great.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that family care.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_04]: He's going to be like, all right, let's go.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sit down.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I'm so excited.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait. It's going to be great.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, I'm still thinking about your questions.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You're so funny.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I have mine locked and loaded and Karen usually like the authors are like,

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_04]: hey, what are you?

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, that's the thing she's like, I answer for her.

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm like, this is anybody Chloe Gong's ever it.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm easy.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I literally we like we might like we might have to pause this recording

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_02]: so I can go back out to my TVR.

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's on my bedside table.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We literally cannot remember anything.

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Everything it's like truly once that you were put on the spot,

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_03]: everything ever just disappears from your brain.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, I don't think I've ever seen a TV show.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_03]: What is a book?

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_04]: What is a TV show?

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Like for me, TV is so much easier.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, they're still fictional.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not to be a book.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. OK.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. All right.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I'm completely obsessed with David Corrin's

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_02]: sweat of Superman. I mean, I don't think I've seen that one.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_02]: No, it hasn't come out yet.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, OK, OK.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That's like I was like, I don't know that.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the new Superman movie is coming out next year.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it's Rosnahan as Louis Louis Lane

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and David Corrin as Superman.

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I love her. I'm obsessed.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So OK, see, we're Marvel girlies, so we did know this news.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So this is actually very exciting.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Midge Maisel. This is very exciting.

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's perfect cast.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can see it.

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect. I can see it.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And Nicholas Holt will be Lex Luthor.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sorry. What?

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry. What?

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that man.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I know it's going to be so sexy, the whole movie.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: If I didn't already have my bisex,

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_03]: you're awakening like this is the moment, right?

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm converting.

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm usually a DC hater, but I will have to go see that.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're relaunching the whole universe

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_02]: because we all know the universe was trash.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why I'm a DC hater.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I can I can understand that.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_04]: That would always be like, but Marvel does it this way.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_04]: It's really good.

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Other than our Pats Batman, that was that movie was flawless to me.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that movie was perfect.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're right.

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I really liked that movie.

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people like hated on it.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand why.

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it was it was excellent.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It was excellent.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_04]: He didn't hate it. He just didn't like it.

[01:00:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like he was like it was too long.

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like it was long enough.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's that's what I heard the most is that I felt like it flew by.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I looked down and I'm like, what do you mean?

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_03]: It's over. Yeah.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That's wild. Yeah.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I loved it. That was I just my thing with DC

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that I didn't like was that they would have a TV care

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_04]: like a TV show with a character played by an actor.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But then they'd have a movie with that character

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_04]: played by a different actor where like with the MCU,

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_04]: you have the consistency.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So it made it feel more fluid.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_04]: I agree. Where DC was just all over the place.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, just like nobody.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry. Nobody is the Flash other than Grant Guston.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I can't.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It is he's he is the Flash.

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_03]: He is Barry Allen and you cannot.

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody can tell me.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Nobody can do it.

[01:00:57] [SPEAKER_04]: But if they're turning over a new leaf

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and starting fresh with Rachel Broger.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I take that.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to go.

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because yeah,

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because the person who took over all of DC movies

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: is James Gunn, who is the director.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: True.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Guardians of the Galaxy.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. If anybody could do it, anybody could do it.

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It would be James Gunn.

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah. So I have I have faith.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Karen, what happened to me in the movie

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: in the theater parking lot with the last Guardians of the Galaxy

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_04]: movie? I can't remember.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_04]: They like they were like they should have left it to and they claim

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_04]: they said a director's name, but it was not.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. They said they said

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: they said something else.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_03]: They they said, oh my gosh, I can't remember.

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe it was something about what's

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: what's the actor's name who plays Kirk?

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_04]: They were like Sean Gunn is such a good director or something

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_04]: like that. And we were my husband and I were like,

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_04]: wasn't who did that's the wrong one.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the wrong one.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It was like really loudly criticizing this movie

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and the wrong person.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And it was just yeah, I had to laugh out of it.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Together.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're wrong about a lot.

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's so funny how the people who are so wrong

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: are so loud about it.

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so loud.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They could do it.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: They'll get killed.

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_04]: You are not wrong.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Look, I'm doing what I can here in Georgia.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_04]: OK, we're trying.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_04]: We're trying to fix at least one state.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_04]: It's getting there.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very perfect for our lives out here.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for fighting the good fight.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: No, honestly.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So hard.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's a thing about living in California is like

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: we often feel like we don't have to fight as hard

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to the national political scene because we're so

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: well at least the Bay Area.

[01:02:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's got to be like our big city centers

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: in California are like the ones that kind of take over

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_03]: the whole of the state.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like a lot of the middle of the state is actually

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: fairly red.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So but we have more of the numbers.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's it's nice to not.

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, no offense, Manny, but it's nice to have to worry too much

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: about like my

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: scary being taken away.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm like that meme all the time, like I'm in danger.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: But we are a battleground state.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_04]: So one of them is like everybody that I can convince.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, you're sure to vote.

[01:03:30] You're going to go.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a bunch of research that we don't want Project 2025.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, if you love me, this is how you'll vote.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Have you ever met a woman at this point?

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of how you vote.

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_04]: My nieces have left have less rights than I did when I was their age.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_04]: That's all I need to know.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's the truth and it's oh my God, it's so like it's mind blowing.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It's wild.

[01:03:59] That is wild to think about.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we're not supposed to be going backwards, guys.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I mean, never supposed to remove rights.

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've lived a long life and I've never once in my life

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: remembered it going backward like right now.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's bonkers.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Bonkers.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So before if you're still thinking before we we had an interview before

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_03]: you where we talked to Kyle Prue about his book, How to Piss Off Men.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we're we're very excited to have you with your little drag

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_03]: queen book to help us continue pissing off men.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for being here and doing this and just a fragile man with us.

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good time.

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We're very fun here.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've done like it's probably because of karaoke queen, but for the past

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: two panels that I've done on at the book cons has been about toxic masculinity

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: or they anti personality in romance.

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's where it's at right now.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by the way, I OK, I figured out two, two things of that, two books

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that I love that I recently read and they're and but the problem is

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: they're like they're kind of old.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So but I still love them.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, they're both male male romance.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: One is I finally got around to reaching Teacher of the Year by Emma Wardell.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, and it was fantastic.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He is a fantastic, fantastic author.

[01:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the second one was it was the first in this series of Sapphire

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Co by C. Travis Rice, and he's also well, he's more well known as Christopher

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Rice, he's the son of Anne Rice.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So and he used to write a lot of thriller, but now he's for the past

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I think 10 years or so, he's been doing male male romance and I never read

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: any of them and I recently did a cruise with him.

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, oh, let me read his book and it was really good.

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so my fictional boyfriend will be the guy from his first book

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: because he's this big burly dude.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that I remember you.

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I remember you mentioning him or his book recently.

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like Christopher Rice, hold on,

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: because there's a Broadway actor with the same name and I'm obsessed with him.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, he wrote a book.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on. And I was like, oh, different person, different person.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, also like he adored this man.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: He and his husband are both like Broadway actors and they are so cute on the internet.

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, let's be best friends and his husband's like a big reader.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, did he wrote a book?

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Why have I never heard of this?

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Then like Anne Rice's son tracks.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: It tracks that also tracks.

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like Joe Hill being Stephen King's son.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, what do you if your parent is like a literary

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_04]: mega corporation on their own, do you do anything else?

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I know you follow.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like there's a there's a book there about somebody who is the child

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: of a literary giant who is just like, well, I'm actually really bad at writing

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_04]: or something. I just want to be an accountant.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_04]: That's me on a right.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_03]: How far away from writing can I go?

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it depends on your relationship with your parent

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and also what their experience is in the industry.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's true for like acting or musicians or anything.

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you had like if you were the, you know, if your task

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: not well, Chas Bono, you know, right?

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And you had a great relationship with your model.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't end up but they're still a performer.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like if they had a good relationship and if they saw

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_02]: good experiences, they might be more willing to go into that scene.

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Right? That's true. That's true.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_04]: That's true. But then they'd have to be willing to like fight the nepo baby.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Yeah.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Alligations to they have to actually be talented.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Enough to not have to deal with that.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's another thing too.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you are someone who doesn't want to have that stress

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: of having to live up to your parents.

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, their name.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Their name. Yeah. That would be hard.

[01:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm comfortable where I am at.

[01:08:12] Yeah.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so you kind of already talked about it, kind of what comes next.

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: You have this book that you've talked about.

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have anything else that you're kind of working on

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: that you can talk about?

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. So there's that book.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, I mean, I guess I could say it's it's basically

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it's about these two.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a rivals took that third book as a rivals to lover story.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's about two dancers from Broadway who used to be rivals.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And one continued to be a dancer beyond the one

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: continued to be like a director more.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then later, the director gets asked to direct the show that

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Keto writes.

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a musical musical that Keto writes along with Emmett,

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: who writes the book.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And so this new this the new character gets asked to direct the show.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And besides for reasons unknown yet, decides to ask his rivals.

[01:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We need a star dancer in it.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So already obsessed.

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so exciting.

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't think you can get you on our calendar.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, whenever that comes on, because you know,

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: you know that you've been here and this is your second time.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You're very well aware that you are legally obligated to come back

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: for all book releases.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll see you then.

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you then.

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I'm working on.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm percolating a new

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I have I have an idea for a new series.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to be sort of more sci-fi,

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: but it will definitely be a love story.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I can't I can't go into it now because it's it's a whole

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm spinning a whole world.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So that is so exciting.

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the answer next time.

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I will.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I will. It's still it's still percolating.

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's so cool.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: This is exciting.

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yay. Yeah.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, friends, when this episode airs, the book will be out so you can walk

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_03]: into a bookstore and grab this beautiful book.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Karaoke, how do you not want this on your shelf?

[01:10:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, impossible.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just it's so beautiful.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And look at the spine.

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Show the spine. The spine.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's gorgeous.

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's colorful.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Also, I you know what?

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I completely forgot about this.

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: The narrator from the audiobook.

[01:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. I know you haven't like officially, officially announced it.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, as of today, sure. Right.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. As of as of when we're talking about it.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. But what's it like to be one of God's favorites?

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Because truly, how how how like the last book was amazing.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: This book is going to be amazing.

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, who are you?

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Who are you bribing to get these amazing narrators?

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So for those of you who are listening, I mean, I can say now

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: because you're listening after it's been revealed.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But the narrator for karaoke queen is none other than Manila Luzon,

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: a RuPaul's Drag Race.

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_03]: That is so wild.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's crazy.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like so basically when Elise Green, who's the producer of my

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: audiobook, that has she emailed me and she was like, so she's like,

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, Dama, I got a sign to your book.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yay, let's go.

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, who would you like to narrate your book?

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: My thought would be Manila Luzon.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think? And I was like, are you a kidding me?

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what kind of question is that?

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I just like I don't are we supposed to.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is not even possible.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, I mean, I don't know.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, we should shoot for shoot for the moon and see what happens.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, of course, that's like literally the most perfect person.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: My book, right?

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Like probably the most famous Filipino American drag queen on the planet.

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't hear back.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I heard nothing or heard nothing.

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And finally, my editor, Alex was like, hey, I don't want to get your hopes up.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you had to choose between Manila Luzon and Jujube, who would you pick?

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, what?

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a choice.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_02]: As she is like, well, we haven't got the audition tapes yet,

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but we are expecting them.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I might up words.

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_03]: That is no idea.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a function.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: They truly make magic over at Hushed Audio because like, wow.

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Do they know what they're doing?

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I will say this.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say this.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Jujube did audition.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Her audition tape was incredible, incredible.

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I only I have to say I only chose to go with Manila

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: because she's Filipino and Jujube is not.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, but what kind?

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Like who doesn't want to have a choice like that?

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That is wild.

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That is so cool.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that for you so much.

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited to see who comes next.

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like how do you how do you top this?

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_05]: You can't.

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Dom, for hanging out with us again.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: This has been so much fun.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: This has been so fun.

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited.

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to get this beautiful book.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so pretty.

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so pretty.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Go pick it up.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be so good, y'all.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And you will need just just a little bit of tissues at the end,

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: just a little bit.

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not as known as bad as the other one.

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that is.

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's like it's like a good cry to right.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's a good cry.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, you can read this one on the plane.

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You won't be embarrassed.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I got that so many times from people

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's kind of like a vacation book all the right now.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So my books are kind of vacationing books.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so people tend to read them on the plane or on the train

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: or on the bus going to whatever destination they're going to.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you like I fully cried in front of a plane full of strangers.

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That was not cool.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You should have won the next book.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Put a thing in the first page warning.

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Do not read this.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_04]: No public transportation.

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh.

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you again.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't wait for whatever comes next.

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So we'll talk to you soon.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: OK.

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for coming.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Bye, guys.

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I freaking love him so much.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I love him so much.

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_03]: He's such a sweet baby angel.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He's the best.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: When this episode comes out, I will have just seen him

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: because he's having his book launch here in the Bay Area,

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously.

[01:14:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll be seeing him and rumor has it that a certain drag

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_03]: queen will be showing up.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm very excited.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: He's pulling out the drag.

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Love.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I love him so, so much.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh no.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: He's such a treasure.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Guys, it's so pretty.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so pretty.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Go pick it up.

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_03]: You will not regret it.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It's amazing.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yay.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: We're done.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: So I guess it's time for announcements.

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: An announcement.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.

[01:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not prepared.

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Where did I put it?

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm clearly very good at this.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: My luck to the wrong page.

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: OK.

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you ready?

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to hold it up.

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So next week, we're so excited.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk to Rebecca Fabian who wrote The Lovers.

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: She is a repeat defender.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: You may not recognize the name, but you'll understand next week

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_03]: when we talk to her.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: We're so excited.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we've been waiting forever, like years.

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait to talk to her.

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be so much fun.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I had her.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I was texting with her when I was trying to do like my character

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: sheets for my story.

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I need you to pick all of their astrological signs

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_03]: so that I can make sure they're compatible.

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And she had so much fun with it.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like this.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love that.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: It should be an author service.

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like people just give you traits and you can pair them up

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_03]: because she's so good at it.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyways, very excited to talk to Rebecca next week.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yay.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Yay.

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And now it's time for Shveel.

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me do a shveel.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[01:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, friends, if you enjoyed this episode,

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: please like, follow and subscribe wherever you are listening to us.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: You can also follow us on social media.

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_03]: We are at the incoherent fangirl on all the things.

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Visit our website, the incoherentfangirl.com,

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: where you can also stream all of our episodes as well as read our blog.

[01:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And for those of you who are interested in early access to podcast

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_03]: episodes, full video episodes and bonus content,

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[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_04]: All the things.

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[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And speaking of fun things, we also have a merch store

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[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Head over to the incoherentfangirl.com to do some shopping there.

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[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: This is Patreon.

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: This is how we feel about your words.

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Lots of hearts.

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: Millennial hearts.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because the other kind are very difficult to hurt the hands.

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_03]: She is at Mandy Perve on all the things.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_04]: She's at Miss Made in China on all the things.

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And once you followed us on social media

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[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: First stop is Here Comes The Nerd.

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to go to herecomesthenerd.com.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Use code FANGIRL and you'll get 10 percent.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh no, that's wrong.

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll get 20 percent off your first order.

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Whoa.

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I got confused there for a second.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know somewhere you can get 10 percent off

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: is once upon a book club.com.

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_04]: We have two codes.

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't care which one you choose.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We love you no matter which one you choose.

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_04]: You can use either code CARINN10 or MANDI10 for 10 percent off.

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: You can't stack them, but yeah, I get 10 percent off

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_04]: but you just have to make sure if you use Karen's code

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: that you spell Karen right

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_04]: or you're going to get 0 percent off

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: and we are going to make up

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_04]: how to piss off men lines about you.

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Ooh, I like this.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I like this a lot.

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And then once you're done doing that,

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: you're going to head over and visit our girl,

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Amberde Lewis at amberdelewis.com.

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to add 10 of everything to your cart

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and then use code FANGIRL10 to get 10 percent off the 10

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_03]: of everything and you have now saved money.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Basically free.

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Look at that.

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing such great work for y'all.

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And then last but I mean, I guess not least

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_04]: we're going to support the show husband.

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to go to searchersbelieve.com.

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Check out everything they've got going on there

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you're going to go subscribe to streambeacontv.com.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It's our new streaming platform

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_04]: where we've got paranormal, true crime and horror content.

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_04]: He's on a meeting right now for some really exciting stuff.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I can still hear him downstairs.

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_04]: His voice carries.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So you're going to go to streambeacontv.com

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and if you subscribe and use code FANGIRL10,

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_04]: you'll get 10 percent off of your subscription.

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Then you can go to searchersbelieve.com.

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_04]: They've got some pretty cool merch also designed by yours truly.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you use code FANGIRL10 there,

[01:19:25] [SPEAKER_04]: you'll also get 10 percent off of merch.

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you should do both.

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I agree.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: You should also once you're finished with this podcast episode,

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: head over and look up the paranormal mind

[01:19:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and see their podcast because why not?

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_04]: They're pretty spooky.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_04]: They've been on a little bit of a hiatus of the podcast,

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_04]: getting the app, the streaming platform up.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm I think the paranormal mind will be back soon.

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, plus it's spooky season.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, even if you've already listened to it.

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Why not re-bing it right now?

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm on a lot of episodes.

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, producer Mandy.

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Lots of fun there.

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_03]: All right. I think that's it.

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: That's about to go to your favorite girl.

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. We love you.

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