It’s Not Really An Interview, It’s Just Vibes

[00:00:00] I love it, I love it a lot. Alright, I'm not ready. Welcome to the Incoherent Fangirl. We're back and hoping that we won't have any technical difficulties this episode. I'm recording in a new space so, fingers crossed. We're crossing all the things. I'm Mandy of Masticator Manor.

[00:00:26] And I'm Karin of Renedon. Welcome back to the podcast. Our second half, second part of season 3. A lot of exciting things coming up for y'all so we can't wait. I was looking at our upcoming roster and I was like, wow. What is happening? That's bullish. That's getting full.

[00:00:49] That's a little crazy. It's gonna be a good time. Before we get into it, we're gonna break Mandy's heart already. It's the start of this yet again. I forgot about this. In our timeline, friends, it is August 1st. Happy August.

[00:01:06] And in y'all's timeline it is August 9th which apparently is my daughter's second day of school. Fourth grade. The twins went back to school yesterday for us. Bunkers. Weird. It's weird. They're growing up too fast and I don't like it. It's the worst. I know. Me neither.

[00:01:26] That sound means we have an intruder alert. Oh, we have a repeat offender. Our fave. We're so excited. I'm gonna be careful when I pull this up because I gotta cover up a certain person. We've got Hannah Nicole Meir. My phobia. It's a turtle. Don't you remember me?

[00:01:52] I haven't sent... My daughter drew photos like little turtles for her to cover up her book. Perfect. But we just haven't gotten around to it for this one. Wait, Mandy, have you read the whole thing?

[00:02:05] There was an unwritten joke for you in that book and I just read it so constantly, did it? I think because there's a joke where somebody's making fun of Kingsley. I'm not gonna say who it is.

[00:02:18] But somebody called him a turtle and the villain's like, he's a frog. That is now canon. It's not unintentional. It's me. I'm gonna be so obnoxious about this. You have no idea.

[00:02:36] I just thought of it and I was like, oh my God, wait, that must've been worth that. My brain like... I love that so much. Oh my God. I'm gonna tell everyone. I gotta call my mom. Hold on.

[00:02:48] I'll find the page and then I'll tell you what page to look for. I'm like dying through it. Right, we're going... It's really hard to put it down to log in. Yeah, we're getting there. We're getting there. I'm so happy I remembered that.

[00:03:03] As soon as you said turtle, my brain went, wait, that one part of the book. That is the best. I'm so happy. Like the best thing that's ever happened to me. This is so cool. I'm so conscious. This is amazing. I love this so much. Oh my God.

[00:03:21] This is the best. I'm already having so much fun. My cheeks are... I know. We haven't even asked a single question. Not a single what? This is the best. We're playing. It's just fun. It's just vibes. It's just vibes. It's not really a new book. It's just vibes.

[00:03:37] Hannah's like the third fan girl anyway. Yeah. So like... Yeah. Oh my God, I'm on. Thank you. Oh my goodness. I am just a fan girl. It's a state of mind. I feel like everybody's got a little fan girl. Yeah, I think everyone should have a fan girl.

[00:03:56] For sure. Everybody's a fan of something. So for sure. Okay, so let's pretend that we are professionals here. We're not, but we're going to pretend. So Apprentice to the Villain. It is the sequel to Assistant to the Villain.

[00:04:11] And as it's a sequel, it's hard to talk about without spoilers. But if you can give us kind of like a summary or like an elevator pitch of it or like the series as a whole or whatever you can say without giving things away.

[00:04:25] So Apprentice to the Villain is... I've been describing it this way when I just talk about it. I'm like, it's just more of everything we got from the first book. So there's further development in the romantic relationships. There's more tension. There's more world building.

[00:04:42] There's more like going to different places outside the office. But essentially book two is Evie, what if the assistant became something more? So Evie is kind of taking on other responsibilities other than just like the assistant responsibilities

[00:04:58] that she's had and she's learning to cope with things that she learned in the first book. And sort of we're seeing like ramifications of things that occurred in book one are going to come into play in book two.

[00:05:12] New seeds are going to be planted that are going to come to fruition in book three. So lots of threads are being pulled through. Yeah, just more of everything in book two. More of everything and everyone, which is nice. Yes.

[00:05:27] So I saw a video, but just for our listeners who may not be on socials, you answered this question already. But I know you're a mastermind. So how long have you had this whole thing plotted out?

[00:05:41] Because you have like actual proof of how long you've had this plotted out. I feel like it's since I started doing this. I kind of knew what the whole theme of what the book series would look like from the jump.

[00:05:58] Like I won't say maybe like from the first episode, the idea started building. And then I would say like really early on, I knew like where this was going to go and like what was going to happen.

[00:06:09] So a while, I feel like the actual logistics of the story started when I was writing book one. Like the beginning sequence in book two, I had been planning since like early stages of book one.

[00:06:22] I was literally writing it and going, oh my God, this is what's going to happen in book two. And I was like, you're not done with book one yet. So finish this one. Calm down. But I can't stay in my own lane.

[00:06:33] Like I can't, I simply don't know how. So yeah, it's been planned out for a while. But so many things from the skit series are things that I knew were going to be threads that I would pull into the books.

[00:06:47] So that my goal was always that the books would be like something new for people that have seen the skits,

[00:06:53] but it would be reminiscent in the way that you'd recognize like maybe one storyline specifically or a character that you met in the skits that you're now meeting in the book and things like that.

[00:07:04] So there's definitely things that I've known and the half the fun for me is that no one knows what I'm going to pull. So it's even so it's extra surprise if people go through the skits and are like, I know it's going to happen.

[00:07:14] I'm like, no, you don't because I might not. But it's fun to like see the Easter eggs too that like, yeah, I like them because if you haven't seen the skit series,

[00:07:28] it'll just like go over your head and you won't it won't like do it like it won't bother you. You won't even notice it. But for people, it's like a little inside joke with like, let's see in the skit series, which is so fun.

[00:07:39] That is so fun. I'm so glad you mentioned the beginning of the sequel because it's been a while since I read the first one last year. And my memory is about as good as Dory from Finding Nemo.

[00:07:51] So I opened the book and I started reading, not realizing that it was a prologue. So I was very confused because the prologue obviously comes before everything that happens in Assistant to the Villain. And so I was like, wait, do am I remembering the end of that wrong?

[00:08:08] Like this doesn't compute. And then I got to chapter one and I was like, oh, I'm deaf. I'm the problem. No, it is trying to go for I think if you went right for even if you like had just read book one,

[00:08:23] it's probably drawing to go from that into like a prologue that takes place prior to the events of book one. And you're like, wait a minute. What?

[00:08:30] I just wanted to like throw that out there for anybody who has like read book one and goes right into book two. Like, don't panic. You're not confused.

[00:08:40] It's funny because in the in the first book, the prologue is like Evie and the Villain meeting for the first time. And that was originally before my editor had the fabulous idea of moving that and having it be a prologue. Originally, it was like a flashback chapter.

[00:08:54] And she was like, how about that's the prologue? And that's the first thing people read. And I was like, that's such a good idea, because it's like one of my favorite scenes in the book.

[00:09:00] I love that it would be the first thing people see when they open the book. And so same thing with book two. That scene was a flashback early on in book two.

[00:09:09] And then we were like trying to figure out what to do with it because I didn't want to lose it. I was like, it's so important. And then I was like, oh my God, wait, let's make it another prologue.

[00:09:18] And then the books will just start off with like a flashback sequence from those months where we didn't see them. So I was so excited when that clicked. I was like, perfect. It was meant to be. It's great. Yeah.

[00:09:30] And it ended up tying in so perfectly with the way book two kicks off that I was like, this is like, I'm so with her. Yeah, because speaking of that first sentence, it's like, wait, excuse me. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. It's been on social media now.

[00:09:51] But Evie Sage is dead. What a starting line, truly. Like, the starting way to start the book. Everyone's like, you mean like in the reputation sense, right? And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I didn't feel it for so long because I was honestly so scared of the reaction.

[00:10:14] I was like, I am. I'm like, I love teasing and I feel like I've gone mad with power now. Like everybody's like, everyone's like, don't do that. Well, I'm an Aerie. So now I really want to do it harder. I'm going to do it more now.

[00:10:28] And I want to do it. You brought it up. It's your own fault. If I simply have no choice, I am a double fire side. Like there is absolutely no other avenue for me to take. I can't control it, okay? I'm just a girl.

[00:10:47] Honestly, I'm just a girl. Oh my gosh. So hard. So I want to know what was the thought process behind? Because there is some more like POV chapters or POV characters in this book than the first one.

[00:11:03] So how did you decide that that was going to be what you did? I mean, it works really well because there's a lot going on. But I just like where was what was the process to get to there? Yeah.

[00:11:14] So I knew I wanted to include more POV chapters and my editor had the same suggestion. And I was like perfect because I wanted to do that anyway.

[00:11:23] And I feel like this story needs more points of view because there's just and this is why I always say like I'm so remiss to call any of the characters side characters.

[00:11:31] And I know in a technical sense they are because E.B. and the villain are like the main characters, but they're so important to the story. And they're so important in and of themselves that it feels weird to call them side characters.

[00:11:42] I'm like they're so important. They matter so much. But when I went into writing book two and I knew like whose character arc was going to be because when you have an ensemble cast of characters,

[00:11:55] I've learned that like you can't you want to do them all at once. They're character arcs, but it's really not like it doesn't work well. So I knew that there was like a few characters that would need to be a focus in this book.

[00:12:07] And I knew the ones that made the most sense to be a focus in this book because I knew like I knew that a specific character was going to have like a big arc in this book.

[00:12:18] And we were going to learn a lot about this character's backstory because we didn't really learn about this character's backstory in the first one. And so I knew that was going to be a thing.

[00:12:26] And then another character we meet, I knew that they needed their own kind of like you know their own point of view.

[00:12:32] There was actually originally in the original draft there was a Claire point of view, but it happened like so late in the book that it was like almost a little jarring that it just like randomly pops up and you're like, what were you like?

[00:12:48] And it felt like I would and it was to the chapter felt a little redundant because it was information that could be presented like so easily in a different chapter.

[00:12:59] So like characters that we didn't focus so much on in book two, I always knew in the back of my mind like these are characters teaming them up for their big arc.

[00:13:08] But I was really yeah so I knew that in this book there were certain characters I would like focus on really heavily and then in the book I'll focus on like characters we didn't focus on yet super heavily and pull all of the characters we've been having an ensemble cast of points of view.

[00:13:23] I think Evian the villain's points of view still make up like most of the book, but I also knew too that they were like going to be outside the office a lot and I knew that it would also be like you want to know what's happening back in the office.

[00:13:35] What a better way to do it than to touch in with who's always in the office.

[00:13:42] Yeah, it was it was pretty easy decision like who was going to get what section of the book. There was like some that were tweaked in editing but most of them pretty much stayed pretty consistent with who who was thinking what and when.

[00:13:55] Okay, so don't hate me for this question but I while I was starting to read I like this one popped into my head so Evian the villain are gone and you have to pick two people from Massacre Manor to help you fight the valiant guard.

[00:14:08] Choose your players. Oh my god. Blade and the dragon. Hey, that's smart. That's fair. The dragon really can't breathe fire when you serve him too.

[00:14:21] But he looks intimidating. He looks so scary. Yeah. Snap and eat people so I feel like the dragon and blade would probably be my best bet. My second. Yeah. Tatiana.

[00:14:33] I said Tatiana and Becky. I would want to say Becky's a sleeper. Like Becky's a sleeper. Yeah, she'd be a really good strategist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then Tatiana because you need a healer that's right.

[00:14:46] Heal her and she can hurt just as much as she heals. Yeah. She's also so hot. So like, honestly, no one would want to be distracted. Yeah. I can't fight her. You're too beautiful. Yeah. Fair. I can fight you though.

[00:15:04] I'll cut you down. Bye. I love that. I would like to know if we're ever going to get a Kingsley the turtle POV.

[00:15:17] I won't say yes or no, but I will say you definitely get more of Kingsley as a whole in book three. Whatever that possibly means. I don't know. But I yeah. So we'll see.

[00:15:29] I'm just like, I'm going to be really happy. I'm in. I'm about like 40 ish percent, 42% into the book and there's something that there's like hints of things regarding Kingsley and I'm like, oh, I'm planting. There are there. What if she told you she's a mastermind? I know right?

[00:15:54] Okay. You're a mastermind goober. Yes. You're a mastermind. The two things can exist simultaneously. We contain multitudes. Okay, we can be more than one thing at a time for sure.

[00:16:12] Always. Okay, so last time you were here, you were a newly published author, but now you are a seasoned pro. So what's it like going through publishing with a second book? Like yeah, with the New York Times bestselling title under your belt.

[00:16:27] What's the process? How's the process changed? Oh my God, I would never consider myself a seasoned pro. I love that you call me that though. I'm going to like that's going to inflate my ego.

[00:16:36] I think that I went into this like very like, I don't know. I honestly I think the second time around, I'm way less like nervous. Like with this really like I've been so calm, like almost to the point where I'm like, this is suspicious.

[00:16:52] Like where it's like, it's like a toddler being too quiet in the other room. Like something's something's wrong.

[00:17:00] I feel like I'm such a panicker. It's like part of my process. But I think that I think I learned so much about myself with the release of book one and I learned a lot about the way that I write.

[00:17:15] And I don't know, I really feel like I grew a lot this year. I'm like, I went through like a growth period. I'm so annoying. I'm like, I grew. But that's, that's, I mean, that's true. And that's gonna happen. That's natural.

[00:17:28] It's like a new experience. And I feel like I took, I took everything as like a learning curve so seriously and really tried to use every experience that I've had throughout this as a learning experience to be better in whatever area I'm trying to be better in.

[00:17:44] And with going into writing book two, I was going through like a lot of changes like outside of like the book world and it was like really jarring. And it was difficult and writing book two, it really, the universe is always just like write a book when you're like feeling like I'm drifting.

[00:18:00] Because the same thing happened with book one. I was very, I was very lost in life. I felt very like unmoored and I was going through a lot of health issues. And it was sort of the same sort of situation this year. I was dealing with like mental health stuff out outside of the book world and the book two became like a safe haven the same way book one became so it was super similar and that it was just like a really like lovely escape for me every time I felt like I can't deal with this. So I'm gonna do it here.

[00:18:30] Writing in general helps me process things. So I think that honestly, the only thing I think I did differently was I planned more for this one like I sat down and I tried to at least I tried to honestly, it didn't go the way I wanted it to be like you guys do this and they're like no and then they

[00:18:49] I'll be like, in this chapter, you need to do this. And they're like, actually, we're gonna do this instead. And I'm like, that's kind of threw up the whole plan. But okay, whatever they're like, so I learned though to like outline I think I learned a better balance of like, okay, I'm gonna like land but also like allow myself the creative freedom of I do so much better when I'm not planning too much like I like to plan as much as I need to. And then the rest is like, let's see what happens.

[00:19:19] And I do so much better creatively that way. So I think that yeah, it was only different in that way. And I think I tackled it a little bit differently, especially towards the end when I was editing because I felt more confidence in myself and I felt like, I don't know, I think I just went through like, like a journey and I was like, I'm really proud of like how far I've come. And yeah, I think I rebounded with like a lot of positivity towards the end. But it's like writing is always my processing for whenever I'm thinking and it was so, so cool.

[00:20:19] Yeah, I think it's a good thing. Yeah, I think it is.

[00:20:21] I think it's a good thing too. Like everybody struggles with something and it's really nice to be able to like get out of your, sometimes you need a break from the things that are happening in your head, and however you need them. So it is nice. It's a nice connector too.

[00:20:33] For sure. Yeah. I've done this to you before where I cannot read anything out of Evie's mouth without hearing your voice, like your lip, your literal voice. It's you, she, you. Yes, your face.

[00:20:46] So I just, I just want to know like when the like film adaptation happens because it's gonna happen. Are you going to be playing Evie alongside Ben Barnes as the villain? I'm so excited. We did sign with legendary pictures, which I'm so at the show. Oh yeah.

[00:21:05] So awesome. And I keep getting questions like who do you picture as the villain? Like who's the villain in your head? Like who is he? And I'm always like, I always ask other people who they see because I get the, like the most different answers.

[00:21:20] Like I will get like Tom Hiddleston and then on the other end, I'll be like Andrew Garfield. I'm like these are very different. I love it.

[00:21:29] Everyone sees something so different when they're like reading a book and I love that because it just like, I don't know, it's really flattering when someone reads something you wrote and they're like, I pictured this and I'm like, oh my God, you pictured something I wrote?

[00:21:43] I text Karen last night we were texting and I was like, all right, well I'm gonna go hang out with Ben Barnes. I mean the villain. Honestly love that. I'm just saying I feel like it's a missed opportunity if it's not you and Ben Barnes. Oh my God.

[00:22:01] I'm just saying. Can we be there when that happens? We're in the Roman Empire. Oh my God. I want to be a part of it.

[00:22:17] I love that character so much like she is, she is like how I process things like she is like writing in her point of view. Sometimes I'll be writing in her point of view and I'm like oh God, Amir, I have to take a break.

[00:22:32] Sometimes I really most of the time can separate her from myself and I'm like we're not the same person. Like she's a totally different human being and then she'll say something and I'm like, oh God no, no, I've been called out. That was too much. No thank you.

[00:22:47] That was a little too personal. Let's not do that. No, I do. I love Evie so much. Like she is just, yeah she's my coping schedule. I love that.

[00:23:02] It's funny that Karen brought that up though because one of my questions was that you got some pretty cool news from Legendary Pictures. Is there anything you can talk about with the show? Like what the process is? No, no.

[00:23:15] I can say the team working on it is so fantastic. I love all of them. I think they're all so like so wonderful and I feel so, so lucky. And yeah, it's just been like such a whirlwind so far. It's like, yeah, it's crazy. I can't believe it.

[00:23:32] And every day I'm like what? Are you sure? Like really? Screaming into a bathroom like there was a person in there.

[00:23:41] It is actually like really bonkers when I think about it for too long and I'm like this came from like a series or just me and my phone. And that's it. That was the whole thing.

[00:23:52] And look at where it's wild. But yeah, I can't say anything. As soon as I'm allowed to share stuff, I absolutely will. But I'm so, yeah, I'm so thrilled with like the people working on it.

[00:24:03] I think that they're just absolutely and everyone is going to like, yeah, they're wonderful. I'm obsessed. That's all I'm allowed to say. That's enough. We trust you. We trust the process. I'm very excited for it. In Hannah, we trust you. Yes. OK, so you've been here before.

[00:24:23] So you know we have a couple of questions that we absolutely have to ask every time. Ignore that. I don't know. It thinks that's a thumbs up. It's very fun. Oh, I love it.

[00:24:37] So as you know, we have a segment here called Fictional Boyfriend of the Week in which we pick a fictional character that we are particularly in love with that week. That's who we're bragging on.

[00:24:47] So do you have any fictional characters that you are currently like obsessed with and would like everybody to know about? Oh, wait. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I do. I've actually finally been able to like read for pleasure again.

[00:24:59] I like couldn't for months because I was editing and for some reason my brain could not multitask it at the time. And I was like so upset because I was like there's so many books I want to read.

[00:25:08] As soon as summer hits, I'm like so like I'm reading every romcom I can get my hands on. Like for me, winter and fall are my fantasy months. And then summer is mostly romcoms. But I read Bride by Ali Hazelwood and I was like I was feral.

[00:25:24] Like I actually am like I love who I became reading that. Actually, no, I do. I loved her. She was so fun. I was like a lie. I read it in the pool and I swear to God, I kept going. Loved it so much.

[00:25:38] I've got to get to it. I went on an Ali Hazelwood binge after that. So like honestly all of Ali Hazelwood's literally been read. Every one of them. I read Not in Love recently and I was like oh. I just read Check and Mate recently and yeah.

[00:25:54] I haven't read that one yet. I need that's the one I want to read. Oh it's cute. It's so cute. I read literally every single other one. Like I owned all of them because I knew I would read them. I just hadn't read them yet.

[00:26:04] I had read the love hypothesis. Loved, loved. I had a lot of love for the rest of them. I had a lot of love for the rest of them. I hadn't gotten to the rest of them and I loved Lo. I think that's the name and bride.

[00:26:16] The werewolf. Well, I'm, I'm in Anaheim for a steamy like con this weekend. So when I see Ali, I will let her know. Oh my God. That she's. I think if I met Ali Hazelwood, I would like actually just croak.

[00:26:30] Like I think that would be it for me. Yeah. I'm like, Oh my God. She's so good. Like I read it. Oh, you just get it. She's such a, she's. But she's also one of us. Like she's a fan girl. She's such a nerd. I love that.

[00:26:46] I think that's why she's so good at it. Cause I'll read it and I'm like, God, you just get me. Like, I don't know. She knows what we want. You don't know me but you get me. Yeah. Yeah. Like how do you do this? This wizardry.

[00:26:57] All of her leading men are my book boyfriends. That's perfect. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. All right. And then you might've already answered this, but we're looking into what you're reading too. We need to know. We know what you're recommending your books. But like,

[00:27:11] we need you to recommend some books that we can read. Yes. I think I almost want to say too, like this is the one I recommended last time I was with you guys, but I read the book of Asriel by Amber V. Nicole. I am reading the second.

[00:27:24] I just started the second one, the throne of broken gods love it so far. She's already hurt my feelings several times, but it's okay. I'm going to read the second one. I think I just read it. I just read it. And then I'm like, Oh no. Thanks.

[00:27:38] But Amber loves to do actually when I finished the last one, I texted her because something happened that I was like, there's no way this is. Why would you do this? Why? Like such delululand. I texted her and I was like, there's no way this is true.

[00:27:50] And she texted me back and she went, no honey. I'm gonna touch your hand. When I say this. It is. I was like, What's going on? I was like, I was like, You know what? I'm not gonna trade that heart. So I knew going into this one,

[00:28:03] it would be slightly painful in the beginning because of what happened at the end of book one, but it's already so, so fabulous. So, and honestly, the book of Asriel so good second book already said good and I can,

[00:28:14] and I have the third one teed up for when I finished the second one. I love it. You reminded me of myself and my niece last night because like the serpent dove. Oh, I love that one. The second book contains- Spoilers. Your first character death.

[00:28:26] I'm not gonna say who, but the worst character death I've ever survived. I didn't read the second one. Who died? I can't tell you. We can't tell you. Someone died in the second one? It's- I can't tell you. We can't, you have to- So-

[00:28:40] No one from the main people. You have to read it because it's a candidate, Hannah. We can't answer here. And so much- She's still traumatized from the last book in the Divergent series. I can't- It's like- She got to it and she came in and she was like,

[00:28:55] oh, you're serious? Why would you do this to me? You're a horrible person. I'm so scared. How could you do this? What? Oh no. I'm never getting over it. I'm never ever getting over it. I'm never gonna recover. There's no way. Is it better or worse than Olegant?

[00:29:11] Is it like better or worse than the last Divergent book? Worse. Somebody asked me if it was worse than Kingdom of Ash, the last Throne of Glass book. And I was like, the whole book? No. Single character? Yes. Are you serious? It's good. I'm actually sorry.

[00:29:28] I'm so sorry. You're kind of making me wanna read it more. It's so painful. It's so painful. My God, I'm so scared. But honestly, I'm like, okay, now I need to know. Like I have to- And then she was like, it was like you said, is it real?

[00:29:43] And she's like, is this, is it real? Is this really a thing? It was like, I'm gonna hold your hand when I tell you this. That was my feeling. I'm gonna hold your hand when I tell you this. Yeah, yeah. My God, that is actually so upsetting

[00:29:56] and I have to read it now. So many people have cussed me out. I'm going to read it now. That's honestly a good selling point. Yeah, you're gonna be a little traumatized at the end. You're gonna be like, help me out. It's a lot of trauma.

[00:30:07] I'm still traumatized. I read it two years ago. Yes, you carry it. Very easy. Right there. Right there. She came back. It's like, I don't want that anymore. Oh. I am so sorry, but yeah, like Karen said, it's a canon event. It's a rite of passage. Canon beer.

[00:30:28] You have to survive it. Both of you have to take your call when I get to that part. It's okay. There is a very large support group because it is trauma. We'll be here to hold your hand. We'll be there. It's okay. God, you must be really scared.

[00:30:43] It's just really sad. It's so sad. Oh my gosh, I can't talk about this anymore. I know. I'm getting upset. I don't even know who died. Okay, happier things. Happier things. Tell us what you can about book three. If there's anything you can tell us other than more

[00:31:03] because I know there's gonna be more, but like anything, any little... Any character? Well, so if you think that there's like threads in book two that you're like, this isn't done. It's not. It's going into book three. Right, so like any unfinished business we have

[00:31:20] or like I planted a lot of seeds for book three. So if you see something and you're like, why is this here? Circle it, remember it. It'll probably come back into play in book three. And a lot of characters that we didn't focus on

[00:31:31] in book two will be more of a focus in book three. We're gonna learn more backstory on like the villain, some of the main characters that we haven't seen like a whole lot of backstory from that we know like kind of where they come from

[00:31:45] and what they're about, but we'll learn even more. You might find out something about someone that will upset you. Who knows? I'm nervous. There might be another mystery going through book three where you think you have to solve. So touching back to book one on the mystery element,

[00:32:05] some more fun in book three for sure. I finished outlining it last week and I was so tickled with how it turned out. I was like, ha ha ha. Evil lady like really great. I love it, I love it. Oh my gosh.

[00:32:17] Hannah, thank you so much for coming back. This has been so much freaking fun. Oh my God. Everybody. It feels like I'm on a Facebook call. I know, like we really need like a monthly just like. Just like catch up. Just like a girl session. Yeah.

[00:32:32] We're gonna have to discuss this. But in the meantime, all our friends who are listening, go, I'm gonna cover her up again. Go pick up Apprentice of the Villain. When this episode is airing, the book is out. It has these lovely lilac edges

[00:32:49] or if you go and get the Barnes and Noble edition, there's a little alternate cover plus different edges. It's like slightly different, right? The cover aren't slightly. I have it. It's over there though. Should I grab this? It's like dark purple on the edge

[00:33:03] and there's two brothers in the Barnes and Noble edition. Yeah. So go to Barnes and Noble. Already super girl power. Super girl power already. I'm freaking living for it. It's loving it. It's great. So if you haven't read Assistant to the Villain, what are you doing?

[00:33:21] What are you doing? They do that right now. You guys, come on. Go and read them because they're fantastic. And we all need a little like, we all need to enter our reputation era a little bit sometimes, you know? Oh yeah. So. The year of the pig. Yeah.

[00:33:40] Okay. Hannah, thank you so much for being here. We cannot wait for the next one. We love you. I love you guys. It was so good to see both of you. It's so much fun. We'll talk to you soon.

[00:33:50] Feel free to test me out when you get to. Oh, I will. Don't you? Oh, don't you worry. I'll find you. All righty. We'll talk soon. We love you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. You too. I love her so much. Truly.

[00:34:09] Every time we talk to her, like my face hurts. I'm, I'm. Yeah. It really is not like we're recording at all. Like I just missed it. We're just on FaceTime hanging out. Like, yeah, it's the best time. I love it. Yeah.

[00:34:24] And we just happen to have it recording to post later. Exactly. That means we have an intruder alert. It's an intruder. We have Zen Cho, who is the author of The Friend Zone Experiment among other things. Welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you. Thank you.

[00:34:49] We're so excited for this. So I'm a big crazy Rich Asians fan. So like the back cover, I'm like, oh, okay, this is, this is for me, right? This was written specifically for Karen. For me. So can normally what we first ask is

[00:35:03] if you could give us kind of like a elevator pitch of the book for anybody who hasn't heard about it. Yeah. So it's about a Singaporean entrepreneur who lives in London called Renee, who finds out that she's in the running to take over her exchange families company,

[00:35:18] which is one of these massive Southeast Asian conglomerates. And on the same day, she also runs into her first love who broke her heart 10 years ago, Yup, Getsi Yong. And they are drawn together again, but secrets from their past threaten to present their renewed romance.

[00:35:35] And it's kind of, it was inspired by K-dramas actually, but the kind of Western friendly, Western friendly pitch is it's kind of succession crosses crazy rich Asians with the soul of Jane Austen's persuasion. Those are good cops. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And Renee is dealing with,

[00:35:53] I just feel bad for her. She's got a lot going on. She's starting to break up. She's got a family estrangement. She's a workaholic and she's just not having a great time. And then, then her dad is like, well, By the way.

[00:36:07] She could be the CEO of the family business. She runs into her college boyfriend. She's got these nightmare brothers. Why do you hate her? Seriously, what was it like writing such a complex, like she's got so many things that are just like beating her down.

[00:36:25] What was it like to write someone in a situation like that? I think she does have a lot against her in a way, but then she also lives in this like amazing flat and has quite a glamorous lifestyle. And has, you know, and actually just loves her job.

[00:36:39] I mean, she is a workaholic and does try and needs to set boundaries around that, but loves her job, has a really cool job, runs her own kind of fashion business. And I think for me, all the kind of shit

[00:36:52] she's dealing with in a way, it's just like, I was talking about this book with somebody else last night actually, and he described the book as taking place in the world. That's like, it's like our world, but technicaler.

[00:37:03] And so I think Renee's life is kind of like that. It's kind of like, you know, it's a working woman. She's successful, but she's got like a lot going on as well. And it's kind of taking a lot of the issues

[00:37:14] that a lot of us face and just kind of like amping them up a bit. So she's got like a shitty ex-wife, well, a string of shitty ex-wife and she probably shouldn't have gotten together with. But in the book, because it's in this

[00:37:25] slightly heightened reality that they happen to be like a Taiwanese pop idol and like, you know, this like really rich guy that she runs into in the course of the book when she's trying to win her parents, her dad's company. And you know, she's got family issues.

[00:37:40] She's got kind of like unsatisfactory brothers. She's got kind of, you know, a complicated kind of situationship with her college boyfriend. But all of this stuff I think is stuff that like you might've encountered or like a friend might've encountered, but it's just kind of like

[00:37:53] amped up in the context of the book. That's true. She is like, it is really relatable, but on a much grander scale. Yeah, it's very much like, she's like the every woman, but everything's just like bam, bam, bam. Like all at once, altogether,

[00:38:08] much bigger stakes kind of thing. So I didn't think about it like that. But when you put it like that, it's like, oh, that's like so fascinating. I think like how did you like come up with the idea to just kind of put it all together like that?

[00:38:22] It's so cool. Well, so I mentioned K-dramas, which I got really into during lockdown. And I think like they are really over the top. So for listeners, I mean, I can't imagine that many people don't know what I'm talking about,

[00:38:36] but kind of Korean dramas as a genre, right? Very popular. You can watch them on Netflix and they tend to be very kind of tropey. They're often really over the top. They're like, you know, kind of dramatic or really silly.

[00:38:48] But I think they, I find them really fascinating because they're really committed to very entertaining storytelling, often very trope-led, often great romances while also I think kind of exploring quite interesting issues. Whether that's kind of workplace harassment or my favorite one, Crash Landing on You

[00:39:07] is about a romance between a North Korean soldier and a South Korean kind of heiress and actually significantly inspired the book. So people who've watched Crash Landing on You will recognize certain plot elements in the Friends of Experiment. So I think that that's kind of

[00:39:22] where it came from initially. The other thing about throwing all this shit at Renee that she has to deal with that I kind of was part of what I did is again, I was talking to somebody else about the book

[00:39:33] and she remarked on how many fuckboys there are in the book and how many horrible men basically. And just like lots of different kinds of horrible men. But I think what's really satisfying about it is that, I mean, sadly firstly, that's like a really broad palette

[00:39:47] of horrible men to draw on in real life to draw for inspiration. But in the book they all get their comeuppance in some way and it's often Renee who's the instrument of that and that's something very satisfying about that kind of maybe in real life you'll be working

[00:40:02] with some douchebag who gets ahead for no particular reason apart from the fact that he's a man and he's doing the same job as you but not as well. And there's nothing you can really do about that. But in the book, in a book you're writing itself

[00:40:14] you can kind of make sure he kind of gets what's coming to him. Oh, I love it. That's a good thing about the power of writing. I can pay Brad back for being an asshole. Right. So Kit Chong's backstory is pretty tragic as well though.

[00:40:30] He's looking for vengeance after someone really close to him was kidnapped. And so it starts to feel almost like a, like you said succession, like a crime procedural type mystery. So what was it like writing that seriousness into like a romance?

[00:40:47] And I guess that also goes with K dramas, you know but what was it like to write that? Yeah, again, that was kind of baked into the concept. So I always knew Kit Chong was going to be someone

[00:40:57] who was really sad and his sadness had to be something that you really, that you felt that that was kind of baked into his heart of the book. And actually the story is, you know it's about renewal and it's about kind of, you know

[00:41:09] being able to trust again and love again and believe in kind of happiness again. And they find that through each other, right? And they just have to get over some obstacles in the way before they get there. And I think for me, it was really important

[00:41:22] to have that element in there. I wanted to think a little bit about some of the kind of political issues my country Malaysia has faced, I'm from Malaysia originally although I live in the UK now. And I think although it's a kind of heightened

[00:41:37] as I've sort of described it as a kind of heightened reality in the book it's a wish fulfillment fantasy in multiple ways. So I would say that that Kit Chong story has a happier ending than some of the events

[00:41:49] the real life events that his pot line draws on. You know, I wanted it to have that kind of heft and that kind of seriousness. And I think for me in fiction, like you need to have the kind of dark in order for the light

[00:41:59] to really shine, that makes sense? Yeah, that's very true. So I'm always curious to know like the writing process for each author because it's so like personal and different. What is kind of your writing process? Like are you plotter? Are you a pantser?

[00:42:14] Do you outline the hell out of something before you start writing? What's your personal process? So I'm more of a plotter in the sense that I always have an outline when I'm gonna write something long. And it's not super, super detailed. So I have a friend actually

[00:42:29] and I find her process completely fascinating who will spend months outlining, literally just outlining and she'll outline beat by beat. So every scene like you can literally kind of like this person does this and then they say that and then they do that.

[00:42:44] And it's almost like, I always think of it as like almost pre-writing the draft except she's not doing it in kind of continuous narrative prose. She's just like plotting out the beats. But then what she'll do after she's spent months building this incredibly detailed outline

[00:42:58] is she'll write the book in like three months because she's got the whole thing there. And the outline will change a little bit you know, it will change a little bit from outline to kind of finish draft in the sense that she might find that she's writing something

[00:43:12] that like one particular chapter doesn't quite work and she has to kind of rejig that. But in general, the finished MS will look very similar to the plot, the outline in terms of plot structure. And then obviously I have friends who like answer it all.

[00:43:25] And I would say I'm kind of in the middle of that. I have like a kind of fairly high level outline where I kind of work out right this chapter X will happen, next chapter Y will happen. And then I have,

[00:43:35] and the beginning usually is much more detailed and maybe the first 30 to 50% I have like quite a clear idea of what's happening. And then towards the end there's kind of like mostly question marks like maybe this could happen. And I use Scrivener, right? The software Scrivener.

[00:43:49] So you have a kind of virtual notice board with kind of like notes. And what I always find in each note I usually use as representing a scene or a chapter. What I usually find as I'm writing the book

[00:44:00] is I have like a load of like notes from the, particularly from the second half that just like I don't use where I'm like, maybe this could happen. I'm like, no, that did not happen. But as I'm writing and I'll start with, I start obviously with the more,

[00:44:12] well, not obviously, but I actually write in a linear fashion from beginning to end. So as I start from the more detailed section which is the beginning and I go on, I'll be like working out, oh right. Okay, so now they've done this.

[00:44:23] So actually they need to do this other thing in the next chapter for me to get where I want to be going. So yeah, it's kind of, it's plotting, it's outlining, but it's quite organic. Like it changes in the process of writing. I love that.

[00:44:35] I feel like the characters have to have some say the closer you get to the end, they're like, this isn't, that's not the way my story is gonna go though. My story goes this way. And you're like, oh, I'm learning about you while I'm writing you.

[00:44:48] Exactly, and the point I don't like to outline in a bit too detailed at the outline stage because I think you learn more about the book and the characters, the story that you're telling as you're drafting the first draft.

[00:45:00] And I never quite know if something's going to work before I actually write it out. So no, I absolutely agree with that. You kind of have to let the characters strive. The author's never in control. It's actually the characters. You're just the vessel for them

[00:45:13] to get their story out. So I was looking at your website and I came, I was reading your about section and there's like a sentence that I just love and I'll explain why. There's one word in here that I will probably butcher and I am sorry.

[00:45:28] But you said, I write books about gentlemen, powerful women, dragon dandies, wuxia bandits, bossy Asian aunties and more. And I just need to know how you knew exactly what Karen and I collectively want to read before. It's like truly like the combination of the two of us.

[00:45:46] Yes, I was like, my jaw hit the floor. I was like, that is perfect for me and Karen. So yeah. Well, clearly I did an extensive study of your case in advance. But I also just, that formulation just came to me relatively recently when I was trying to,

[00:46:06] because I really hop around genres as a writer. Like everything I've written before Fence and Experiment has been fantasy, but it's all been like different kinds of fantasy, hopefully. So it's historical fantasy and then it was secondary world fantasy

[00:46:19] and it was like some contemporary fantasy in the mix. And so I was just trying to find a sentence that described kind of everything I've written without getting, without the kind of classic, like I write this genre and that genre. I mean, the high level hitch

[00:46:31] is I write fantasy and romance and that does cover everything I write. But like, I wanted to kind of get into some of the things that I saw recurring in my fiction and that just happened. That just happened to be things I could see.

[00:46:43] That single sentence made me like, I'm going to read every book you've written. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna go to the backlist. Speaking of like your different, I mean, you write fantasy and romance, yes. What is like, do you approach it differently if you're writing fantasy versus romance

[00:47:01] or is it pretty similar in the way that your writing process happens? The writing process is the same, but I think it was, writing romance was interesting for me because it was a new genre. Like I really like romance and almost all my previous books

[00:47:19] have some thread of romance in them. There's some romantic subplot, but I've never caught the challenge of writing a book that's driven by the romance, you know, where the romance is the main plot. And I thought that was, and it was an interesting kind of challenge.

[00:47:34] And the other aspect as well is I've never written anything long form that wasn't either fantastical or historical. And so like setting something in the present day, again was kind of interesting because it was almost kind of like, this feels like cheating,

[00:47:48] like I haven't really done any research. And just like writing about like, you know, life as I know it, or you know, an imagined version that's like slightly more glamorous. But yeah, so those are kind of the main differences. And I think particularly with the,

[00:48:06] with Fred and the Experiment, I think I found it really interesting writing a romance because you're basically trying to write something. I think the most interesting part I found about it is that with the romance, you have to kind of build something that the readers will root for

[00:48:17] like a relationship the readers will root for. And then you also need to build in a reason why they can't get together on page two, you know, having met on page one, right? And I think in a contemporary setting, that can be really challenging because in real life,

[00:48:31] you know all sorts of reasons why people can't get together, you know, maybe they live in different countries, maybe they are incompatible sexually, maybe they, you know, don't communicate well. And maybe they have to go to a therapist and sort that stuff out

[00:48:42] and then they can get it together or whatever. But actually there's like, I think there's like a range of like, realistic reasons in real life that you would tell your friend, oh, that's not worth like breaking up like a good relationship over.

[00:48:53] And then there's a kind of range of reasons that will kind of give readers the ick, you know, that kind of turn them off the relationship. And those don't really overlap significantly. So you have to kind of, it was quite interesting navigating that

[00:49:06] and trying to come up with realistic kind of conflict and tension that would make the happy ending feel earned without actually readers being like, oh, actually I'm not into it anymore. Like I don't think they're a good fit. That's probably honestly harder than writing fantasy

[00:49:20] because fantasy you can be like, and then a dragon dropped in and landed on you. And it's believable, but there are, you're more limited in real world contemporary, you know, without those fantasy elements for creating drama and reasons why they can't be together.

[00:49:35] Like you said, I haven't really thought about that. You know, it's so fascinating because like when I started writing, I was very convinced that I was gonna be like writing this fantasy. And then I got like a few chapters in

[00:49:49] and I was like, I am very bad at world building. So maybe let's not do that. And now I write contemporary romance and I'm like, oh, this is so much nicer for me. I'm happy with this. This is my zone. So it's interesting to hear somebody

[00:50:05] coming from both fantasy and romance now, like seeing the differences or the difficulties maybe that you're having. And I never thought of it like that, but I like that too because yeah, like people always, I mean, romance gets kind of a bad rap where it's like,

[00:50:20] well, it's just a guilty pleasure. It's just this, it's easy to write. And you're out here like, no, it's actually quite hard. There are, you're very limited. So I love that you've said that because now somebody is like, yeah, obviously. And I love that. It's very challenging.

[00:50:36] I think as Mandy was saying, it is a lot easier in a way if you're building a romance in a fantasy world or historical setting because yeah, if you think of a historical setting like Jane Austen, right? There's so many obstacles to perfectly good couple getting together.

[00:50:51] And one of the primary ones being that socially it's a complete impossibility for her to approach him in any way. She cannot write to him. She cannot invite him to stuff. She can't interact with him except in very specific socially sanctioned settings.

[00:51:10] So she has to kind of wait, hope that they happen to turn up at the same party. And then if they know each other, she might be able to sidle up to him and say, how are you? But then they can't also, they can't be like,

[00:51:23] you want to nip around the back and start making out. Like there's a whole structure stopping them from getting there, right? And they have very codified interactions and you can recreate that in fantasy. But yeah, in a contemporary setting, I think like I thought was really interesting challenge.

[00:51:38] Like how do you have a relationship that really feels right to the reader really is really compelling, but at the same time have these obstacles that also feel compelling, right? But then also don't turn them off the relationship.

[00:51:50] This is the point at which like as a contemporary reader, you're gonna be like, you know what? It's not gonna work out. Say you're both in different countries, you both have really compelling reasons keeping you there. You can't have an LDR for 10 years.

[00:52:01] You just need to break it off, get in the apps, get unhinged, get unbumbled, find someone new. You don't want them in that space. You don't want a happy ending. For sure. So we have a few questions that we ask all of our authors

[00:52:17] that come on the podcast with us. One of which being, we have a segment on the podcast that we call fictional boyfriend of the week. It doesn't have to be a boyfriend. We usually pick like a favorite character that we've read recently. Karen's had a fictional granny.

[00:52:31] We've had a fictional found family, fictional best friend. Do you have any fictional characters that you were like, oh, I'm so attached. I just love them. So it's okay if my forever fictional boyfriend is Stephen Matron from the Aubrey Matron novels by Patrick O'Brien,

[00:52:47] which is a very specific kind of answer. Very nerdy. There's a film made, gosh, a long time ago now, called Master Commander of one of the books in the series. Randomly not the first book. It was kind of like the cross between

[00:53:00] the first book and the 10th book of a series, a very long series. And Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany were in it and Paul Bettany made my dream man. So Stephen Matron is this Irish Catalonian. He's a bastard, which means something

[00:53:13] in the kind of age of sales, I think, that the books are in. And he's kind of ridiculous as a character. He's like a Mary Sue, basically, when you describe him. He's like multilingual. He's a physician, that's his main job.

[00:53:26] He's a doctor, but then he's also a spy because they're fighting Napoleon. So he's like a spy trying to kind of win the war because he hates Napoleon as a tyrant. And then he was also involved in various kind of Irish uprisings against British rule.

[00:53:42] He's like natural philosopher. So he's really into science and he's like, and he travels the world with Jack Aubrey, who has a big bromance with, who's a naval captain and goes and collects kind of like specimens of animals, different countries.

[00:53:57] And he does a really fun, kind of like very complex. He's kind of a nerd. He's canonically extremely ugly, like much less good looking than Paul Bettany. He's going to be short and weird looking basically. And I mean, he's just very lovable.

[00:54:13] Like he's like very, you know, very, I guess well, principle is very intelligent. I love that. It's always fun when they're like the little, they're the ones that you don't think are going to be your choice. Those are the fun ones.

[00:54:28] I read a book last year where the male lead was described as looking like a sick crow and you still fell in love with him anyways. You literally called that man a sick crow. And you're like, yes, that one. She would say things like his ugly face scrunched

[00:54:44] and it was like you fall head over heels for him though. So the other question that we always ask our guests is we know we are enjoying your books. We'd love to recommend your stuff because I'm loving it, but we want to know what are you reading?

[00:55:01] What are you recommending? So I've just started Sword Crossed by Freya Marsk and I have loved Freya Marsk's work. And so this is her newest book, which is out. I should know the date, but I don't know the date. It's coming out. It is October. October.

[00:55:18] Yeah, it is lovely. Like I'm just three chapters in, but it's really enjoyable. It's kind of MM, romance-y and I think the tagline is really good. It's like high heat, low stakes, sharp steel. And yeah, I'm really enjoying that. Oh, I love that. I like one of the,

[00:55:34] I think I got an email asking if I wanted to read this and it said, and yes, the swords do cross or something like that. I thought I would die laughing. It was so funny. That is excellent marketing right there. I know, I was like, wow.

[00:55:50] Oh my goodness. Okay, so before we let you go, we want to know what are you working on right now? What can we expect? I know the Friend Zone experiment, by the time this episode comes out, it will be out for people to read,

[00:56:04] but we're always curious what comes next. What are you working on? What can we expect? So I just turned in with the first draft, my second contemporary romance, which we haven't actually settled on a final title yet. So it's Untitled Romance,

[00:56:17] but it's set in a big law firm in London, very similar to the one that I worked for 11 years in, but no longer work for, which is why I could rewrite this book. And it's about a couple of lawyers who are work nemeses,

[00:56:31] but end up sharing an office and then they fall in love obviously. But yeah, so it's got like fake dating. It's very tropey, but it's also thinking about what it means to be a good lawyer and it kind of puts characters in difficult situations

[00:56:48] and kind of sees what they do. So that will probably be out next year I think, but it kind of depends on how much editorial work my editors think it needs. I really love though, that you have the knowledge to actually make it

[00:57:01] what an actual law office would be, instead of just somebody Googling, what's it like to work with lawyers? You know because you are one. Yeah, I know too much, yeah. That don't make for such a good book though. I always like to get the insight.

[00:57:20] It's like the kind of stuff that would be double lawyers. I mean, it's kind of like anyone who's had an office job will know it's stuff like, God, I'm fighting with the people sitting in the pod outside my office because I have these calls of speakerphone

[00:57:34] and they all really piss stuff at me but the client won't stop calling me and insisting that I draft emails while I talk to them so I have to put them in speaker. It's stuff like that. Like it's, yeah. I think that's so fun though. Sounds familiar.

[00:57:45] Yeah, well we had somebody recently who we spoke to who was like, yeah, the book is kind of like, nothing really happens, but there's a romance. And I kind of just love that. It's like a slice of life, but you throw in some romance

[00:57:58] and sometimes we just need that to kind of like escape the shit that is happening in our world. Yeah. So I'm, that sounds exciting. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. Okay, well everybody, like I said, by the time this episode comes out

[00:58:14] the friend zone experiment will be out in the world. So you can walk into a bookstore and pick up a copy today when this is out. I always get so confused with time. I feel like you're my copy. I've only got the UK version. Oh, I like that.

[00:58:27] Oh, it's so pretty. They're so cute though. Like I love this. They have useful covers, yeah. The little tuxes in her glasses. Yeah, that's the little like nods that it's so cool. Thank you so much for coming and chatting with us about this. It's been so much fun

[00:58:42] and we're so looking forward to everybody reading this. Oh wait, you have to give a disclaimer. I have, I see it's been a while since I've done this. So we do have to unfortunately let you know that now that you have been on the podcast

[00:58:54] you are actually legally obligated to come back for all future book releases. We're so sorry, we don't make the rules. We just enforce them. Don't try to look into the legalities of that either because it was in super, super fine print that was actually in white ink.

[00:59:10] Totally, definitely there and it's absolutely enforceable across country lines. Yeah. I won't apply my legal excuse. I'm very happy to come back. I think this is actually the first time we've said that to an actual lawyer. So you heard it here guys, totally legit legal stuff.

[00:59:37] Yeah, completely binding. Totally, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much. This was so fun. This has been so much fun. We're looking forward to whatever comes next and we hope that you have a wonderful pub day because- Thank you so much.

[00:59:52] Thanks for having me. We'll talk to you soon. All right, bye. Oh my gosh, she's so adorable. I love her. Yes, oh my gosh. What a day. What a day, for real. How fun. This is such a fun day. This was a fun episode.

[01:00:10] We had off screen technical difficulties but otherwise it all went pretty smooth. Everything went great. Your internet survived. We powered through. I had to use three different networks but it ended up working. It's fine. We're fine, we did it. We did it guys.

[01:00:28] You maybe wanna sing the Dora song? No. Yay. No, we don't have licensing for that. That was not Dora. That was- That was all bleeped out. Yep. I'm just gonna overlay something. Jupiter music. Oh my goodness, Grace. Oh man. Okay, so time for some announcements

[01:00:57] or an announcement I guess. Announcement, yeah. Because we're not announcing all the things but we will announce next week's guest which is Christina Bassilieri. I hope I'm saying that correctly. We're gonna talk to her about her book, The Last Refuge.

[01:01:12] I don't have it with me but it's really pretty. It's here. I'm sure it is. Bring it out. But that's okay. We will be talking to her next week about her book and it's gonna be so much fun. Yeah, we're excited. We're very excited.

[01:01:26] It's gonna be a good time. I have a fun announcement kind of. It's fun. So I've teased this on previous episodes. Searchers made their big announcement finally. I don't have to be afraid that I'm gonna like spill the beans. Beacon TV is out in the world

[01:01:44] so they've created a whole ass streaming service, streaming platform from scratch. I would like to say that Mandy has been stressed out about keeping this a secret. She was so good at it. She didn't even tell me, okay? She forgot. I didn't tell you, I didn't tell Brandi.

[01:01:59] I didn't tell anybody. I was so afraid I was gonna ruin it. That I just like. So exciting. Yeah, it's a streaming platform for true crime, horror and paranormal content. So we got tired of hearing about shows that got pitched to big networks that got shot down.

[01:02:17] So they're like, we're gonna make our own. And then nobody can tell anybody no, because it's us. So yeah, go to streambeacontv.com and you can subscribe. It's like $5 a month. Yeah, so cool. It's not bad at all. So fricking cool. Yay. Good braids everybody and Karen.

[01:02:36] All right, and it's time for a spiel. Oh, I have to go back to my notes. Get my notes. It's been a while. It's been a while. All right friends, if you enjoyed this episode, please like, follow and subscribe wherever you are listening to us.

[01:02:48] Please also follow us on social media. We are at the incoherent fangirl on all things. You can visit our website, the incoherentfangirl.com where you can also stream all of our episodes and read our blog and or read our blog too both. It's fun.

[01:03:00] There's lots, lots hanging out. Yeah, why not both? If you want. Why choose? Why choose? Truly though, truly why choose guys? If you are interested in early access to podcast episodes, full video episodes, exclusive bonus content, behind the scenes stuff. There might be some stuff from this episode.

[01:03:21] There was a lot of chatting with Hannah before we started. So there's bound to be some behind the scenes stuff. If you want any of that, it's a good time. Head over to our Patreon, the incoherentfangirl.com slash Patreon to subscribe. We would love you for that.

[01:03:35] And also if you are interested in repping the show anywhere you go, we also have a merch store, which has lots of fun stuff. Mandy did add some cute stuff. I did, I added a book shirt. She did the thing. I did it.

[01:03:50] We said she would do it during the break and she did it. And now you can go check her out. She did it guys. So head over to the incoherentfangirl.com slash shop to look at all the cute new stuff that is there because it's so cute.

[01:04:04] I'm obsessed with that. And if you have any questions, comments, concerns, suggestions, design ideas, you want to tell us that we're pretty, please send us an email. I'll take it all. Yes, absolutely. What is our email? The incoherentfangirl.com I'm really killing it guys.

[01:04:22] It's my first slip up. Okay. No, it wasn't even a slip up. You're fine. It's fine. We're good. And one last way to support the podcast is to rate and review on whatever platform you are listening to us on. Please give us your words.

[01:04:36] You know we love words. We love to see your words. We are big fans of words here. So let's do that. Okay. She is at Mandy Perv on all the things. She's at Mizzabate in China on all the things. And once you have followed us on social media

[01:04:47] and you follow the podcast on social media, you can head on over and visit our internet besties because we love them. We deserve our besties. We're gonna start by heading over to herecomesthenerd.com. You're gonna use code fangirl to get 20% off your first order.

[01:05:03] Once you've got all of your pins and artsy goodies, you're going to head over to onceuponabookclub.com. We've got two codes. You gotta pick one. You can't stack them. We don't care which one you use. We love you no matter what.

[01:05:15] But if you use code Karen10 or Mandy10, you'll get 10% off, but you gotta make sure you'll spell Karen right or you'll get 0% off and our eternal judgment and shame. It's true. And unfortunately with Once Upon a Book Club, you do have to choose. We're so sorry about that.

[01:05:32] Yeah, sorry. You could alternate each time that you don't choose. So it's all good. Whatever you wanna do. And once you have done that, you're gonna head over and visit our friend, Amber D. Lewis, who has a brand new book out. It's all the way over there.

[01:05:51] No, I don't have it with me. I'm not at my house. But Between Fate and Failure is out now. It is book one of the Fate of Lodia duology. She has confirmed it as duology. Join us as bash girlies. Yes, bash is the love of my life.

[01:06:06] I guess this week. The dedication is. As a Mandy. It is Mandy approved this dedication. Yes. And then once you get between a Fate and Failure, you will understand what we're talking about. But what you should do. There's double layers.

[01:06:25] There's a little, if you know, you know too. There is, there is. So what you're gonna do is head over to amberdlewis.com. You're gonna add like 10 of everything to your cart. And then you're gonna use code fangirl10 to get 10% off your 10 of everything.

[01:06:40] And it's, we're saving you money. It's fine. Yeah. It'll be great. And then last but not least, you're going to go support searchers, which is my husband's paranormal organization. So we've got searchers. We've got the paranormal mind podcast. They've been on a little bit of a hiatus

[01:06:59] for the podcast because we've been announcing Beacon TV, which is their new streaming platform. So you're gonna go to streambeacontv.com and subscribe. They'll follow streambeacontv everywhere. Searchers believe everywhere, the paranormal mind everywhere. Yeah, they're doing big things and there's so much more to come.

[01:07:20] There's, it's on the website. So I'm just gonna say it. We're filming in the UK some next year. There's gonna be a man versus food style food show, including ghosts in the UK, which I will be going on

[01:07:35] because my husband is not gonna get to go to the UK and I'm gonna be sitting in Georgia, really? Yeah, that's laughable. You're going to where Harry Styles and Tom Hiddleston are, Ben Barnes. And you think I'm gonna stay home? You think I'm not going with you?

[01:07:53] Oh, nay. That's a joke. So I will be on Harry Tom Ben watched while you film. I'm just gonna go sit in parks and watch for them to be walking their dogs or whatever. Anyways, yeah, lots of exciting things, but most important go follow and share, like,

[01:08:16] subscribe if you can to streambeacontv. And if you want to get some merch, they also have a merch store. They have merch. That's the whole point of this, the being in the spiel. Searchers believe.com slash shop. You use code fan girl 10, you'll get 10% off.

[01:08:32] One thing that we should probably mention in our spiel is that Grimoire Tea is not no more. Yes. Not anymore. They have moved to a Patreon only shop. So go find Grimoire Tea and go support their Patreon so that you can keep getting some of their amazing blips.

[01:08:53] Yes, absolutely. Obviously we don't have like a coupon code for that. We just love her and will support her. Yeah, and if you are on our Patreon, apparently we can now recommend things on Patreon. So it is linked from our Patreon as well.

[01:09:08] So you can join us and then join her. Yeah, and here comes the nerd and the paranormal mind. Paranormal mind, all things. It's a good time. Patreon is jamming guys. Like, yeah, let's go. I called it the paranormal mind. I think it's called the believers club. It's searchers.

[01:09:24] I think it's like searcher. I can't remember. I think it's search or something. Yeah, I don't know. It's there. It's linked. I'm not paying to be a searcher patron. You're a producer, okay? Exactly. Come on. Someone that approved, read their shit and designed their merch, okay?

[01:09:42] And that's what I'm here for. And look pretty because it's all boys. Yeah, and bring the fandom to searchers because come on guys. Anyways. That was the Incoderm fan girl. Thanks for listening. We have so much more coming up. Can't wait to share with you. So stick around.

[01:10:03] It's gonna be a good time and we'll talk. I have an inside joke with Hannah Nicole Mayer in this book. Love you. Oh my gosh, we love you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Bye. We are sponsored by our friends at Here Comes the Nerd.

[01:10:19] Pins, stickers, magnets and more. Here Comes the Nerd has happy art for all fandom loving hearts. New customers can use coupon code fangirl during checkout for 20% off their first order at herekomsthenerd.com. Coupon applies to ready to ship items only.