You Guys Look Like Best Friends

[00:00:00] Hi, my name is Jason B. Dutton and you're listening to The Incoherent Fangirl Podcast. Hi, welcome to The Incoherent Fangirl. My name is Jason B. Dutton and tonight we'll be talking about whatever's on my mind. Well, I got this Spider-Man. Oh, hi guys. Jason. Hi. What are you doing here? I had some free time. I thought maybe we could talk some Spider-Man because I'm very excited. Are you guys talking about Marie Antoinette? Marie Antoinette.

[00:00:29] You heard that TikTok sound? Yes, that was the second thing I was gonna- yeah. That and Marie Antoinette. Perfect. Well, since you're here, we might as well have a fun little Marvel discussion. I haven't met the dog yet by the way. This is Roma. Roma! Hi Roma! How are you buddy? He just wants to be involved. Hi. Do you like Spidey as well?

[00:00:57] He looks pretty excited about it, I feel like. Right. Sit down, buddy. All right. Well, welcome everybody. As you heard, our friend Jason B. Dutton is back on the podcast. Happy to be here. We're so excited to have you. We're so excited to have you. I gotta get this pillow out from under me though. Roma's trying to figure out where to sit. He's- Okay. Okay. These are real problems, yeah. We're doing great. We're doing great. Absolutely. Well, it's so exciting to have you back, Jason.

[00:01:27] It's been a while. Has been. Has been. If you don't remember Jason, you need to go like listen to our whole backlog because you're pretty much the third fangirl. Yes. Yeah. And what a good excuse to listen to all the back episodes. That's great. I like that idea. It's a good idea. Spider-Man, I want to know your five word reactions because mine was, thanks for making me cry. Yeah. I teared up a couple of times. I saw it. I've seen it twice.

[00:01:55] Uh, I saw it on Saturday. And then I, because I knew I'd be podcasting, I watched the Holland movies again and then saw it again on Tuesday, I think. And so the second time I brought my dad and when the movie ended, he was like, that girl, that girl next to me was, was crying. She knows that's not real. Right. And I went, yeah, no, I guess we should start by saying this is not a spoiler. There will be spoilers. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:02:24] I should have started with that, but if you have not watched Spider-Man brand new day, you're going to have to pause, go watch the movie and then you can come back. Because these are completely unfiltered thoughts and there will be spoilers. I've worked. Uh, and also I, I would just like to let it be known that Mandy and I had this really hilariously unspoken agreement that we would not talk about the movie. We didn't say a word to each other. Okay.

[00:02:53] We haven't said anything to each other. And the only thing I told you, which I want listeners to hear this just, just in case, the only thing I said was if you have motion sensitivity, take your Dramamine, take your Meclizine before you go. Cause there were a few scenes that made me like, Oh, like it just made my eyes like cross. There were a couple, there were a couple of those where I was like, Oh, that's what she meant. Like, I don't get motion sickness.

[00:03:20] So I didn't, but, but yeah, I didn't do 3d for that reason. Yeah. I figured I would, I didn't do 3d either, but like, I just generally can't when he's like hanging upside down and the camera just like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of like the spinning. Yeah. Yeah. Which was really cool. I liked it. I liked it. I wished I had my Dramamine. Yeah. I think it would, it would five, five words or so would be like my second favorite Spider-Man

[00:03:50] movie. Maybe I watched, I guess my, my favorite ever would be probably Spider-Man 2, like the Toby Spider-Man 2, but. He's always like, yeah. But if you, if you just do the Holland ones, cause I then I watched them again and I can't beat No Way Home for just pure joy. But I think that has to do with like my experience, my, my history with the other Spider-Men. But I, this was really, really, really, really good. Like I. This was great. I would.

[00:04:20] My, my five word response to this movie would be. I'm so glad MJ survived. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wondered about. I was worried. I was so worried with all of the wardrobe choices on the red carpet. Right. With, with the way that everybody is like, she's always, she's wearing black to every single screening. Except China where she's wearing white. Yeah. Which is our color for morning. Oh, okay. Okay. I was nervous. I was very nervous. But.

[00:04:46] Now what was the other, cause I just listened to last week's episode and you referenced a second fan theory that I didn't know enough to know what you were talking about. You were worried about something else. I was worried. Well, my, my biggest worry was that MJ wasn't going to survive. Okay. And then Mandy had said that they said that they're doing something in this film that they've never done before. And so I was like, oh, well, MJ has died in other Spider-Man movies. So it can't be that.

[00:05:15] But then I was worried that Ned would die. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes more sense. That's what I was worried about. She hasn't died. Gwen, Gwen died. Yeah. That's true. MJ hasn't died yet. That's true. Cause my husband said the same thing and I was like, okay, a girlfriend. Right. Yeah. No, it's true. Girlfriend has died. I would have been mad. Yeah. Only because of the way that the story arc is set up and it's like, don't, don't have them forget him.

[00:05:45] And then, and then like, I, yeah, that'd be so romantic. I just got you back. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But like, guys, there was that one scene and it's broke my heart and it just is such like an, a testament to what excellent actors they are. Zendaya is looking in Tom Holland's eyes and says to his face, I don't love you. She's saying this to her husband. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:15] Like the layers of like, I get like, yes, it's emotional as a scene as the characters, but also like, how did he not break? I, I, I cried. I was like, yeah. You looked your husband in the eye and told you him that you don't love him. Yeah. Not, not a minute and 30 seconds earlier. She'd asked him like, is there a spite Mrs. Spider-Man? And you see like the look on his face. Right. And you're like, oh yeah, no, these guys are married. This makes me happy. Yeah.

[00:06:44] And then, oh, oh, oh, right through the heart. Yeah. Like what a testament to how well they work and the trust that they have on set with each other, with their team. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was very impressed with the both of them. I thought that the meta quality of knowing that they're together and rooting for their relationship and also knowing that he and John Bernthal have been friends for like a

[00:07:13] decade and are really close. So that brought me joy because I think it translated onto the screen, but yeah, I was initially, cause I think I told both of you, I was like, if she doesn't remember him by the end of the movie, I'm going to lose my mind. And they gave me something that I was surprisingly, first of all, I think she does remember him. I can explain why here in a minute, but also even if she doesn't, they gave me like, they have a relationship.

[00:07:39] And if I see them work through that relationship in a new way, in another movie, I would be okay with that. But I was afraid they were just going to kind of leave me completely bereft. I think they've definitely set it up in a way that they will, they have a relationship. Like they have that friendship now. And I think it's, it's set up in a really nice way for them to fall in love all over again without her. Yeah. Yeah. Without her having to remember their past.

[00:08:07] Like, I, I feel like they've set it up in such a way that we're, we're going to get to see them fall in love all over again. The fake remembering though. Oh my God. I was weeping the second. See, yeah. It took my nieces a minute and they were like, wait, no, I read. I know I was, I knew this was not her. I know it was awful. I, I didn't fall. I, my first thought was, wow, they, they are kind of tying this up quickly. That's, that's okay.

[00:08:37] And then I, I completely fell for it. Like when she switches and like, oh man. And then, and then our consent King later on, like telling her, like she kissed me and I kissed her back because I thought it was you and I wanted you to know. And she's like, I don't remember. Yeah. That was very sweet. Yeah. I also really love the product placement in the very first bodega scene where he walks in and his beer or his beer. Oh, I didn't catch it.

[00:09:10] I caught the little Caesars the second time. They have a lot of little Caesars pizza boxes, but I didn't catch the beer. That's funny. Another, I don't know. It's not product placement, but it could be an Easter egg. Have you guys seen about the Jackal stuff? No. What happened with that? Okay. So there is suspicion that MJ's boyfriend is Jackal. Okay. He's wearing green. There's a lot of green in his suit, in his like settings.

[00:09:35] And there's a cut scene of him when they're at the party and he comes up to her where there's like a little, it looks like a keg and it says the Jackal like, oh, like Jackal goods or something like that. Cool. And then she says something about him. He says she's not being forthright or something. And it's like, why would you think that unless you're not holding? Yeah. Withholding. That's it. Maybe. So I, I another villain and he would have reason to hate Spider-Man. Yeah.

[00:10:03] This is how unobservant I am is the first time I saw it. I thought that was older Flash. I thought Flash had grown because he's only in the movie for a couple of minutes. And I thought the guy that was always giving Peter grief and then wants to be his best friend after they've outed him as Spider-Man. And it looked for a second, like it was like an older, cooler version of him. That doesn't really. And then the second time I saw it, Ned references Flash as one of the two people that they, he thought Spider-Man could be. It's a different actor.

[00:10:33] Yeah. I, I got back on track, but I was like, that doesn't. And somebody had told me before him. I didn't notice any of this. TikTok did. TikTok told me. Oh, okay. There's only so much because the first time you're watching it, you're, I don't know what's going to happen. Right. So you're sort of in an experience and, and then when you said what, so a second time, and that's where I came up with the first time I saw it, I thought, what if that massive

[00:10:59] mental Jean Grey event that paralyzes everybody kind of shook something in their, their brains, like galvanized, maybe not immediately, but galvanized Ned and, and MJ into like, Hey, there's this guy that we kind of used to know, which then leads to Ned remembering. And MJ is crying during the sort of block. And then afterwards I noticed the second time she's not wearing her black Dahlia necklace until the very end.

[00:11:29] At the very end, she's messing with the necklace that Peter gave her in, uh, far from home when they, um, yeah, she's, he's in Europe and it breaks and the, he gets, it's a whole thing. Yeah. I've seen that. I've seen that theory thrown around where it's like Jean Grey knocked something loose. Yeah. Um, yeah. I liked it. Maybe it's just optimism on my part. I know. I thought the same thing. Yeah.

[00:11:54] I like the idea of like some, like they can feel something, something's there. Like they know something's not quite right. But I, I, I also, I don't know. I feel like I'm so torn because like, I love them as a trio and I love their relationship as a trio. Yeah. And to have that completely ripped away was really hard. Yeah. But at the same time, I feel like it was kind of the character development that Peter needed.

[00:12:24] Oh yeah. To kind of move forward and move into adulthood. And so for that to be completely reversed, I don't know. Should I get everything? Yeah. I get it. Yeah. I get it. I feel like, I feel like. I would rather they relearn each other. Right. I, I, I like the idea of them having like, maybe like shadows or wisp of like, there's something there kind of deja vu things versus them getting out. We know we're faded, but yeah. We're getting there. Yeah.

[00:12:51] So like something, something's missing, you know, and it's, something's always going to be missing, but like they still find their way back to each other kind of thing without the memories. I like the idea of that. Yeah. I've also seen that, that ending. I had, I was like, when, when they first started with the handshake, I was like, really kind of like excited about it. I'm like, Oh, he remembers. And then I was like, no, no, no. It's muscle memory. And then, and then, and then he says Peter.

[00:13:19] And I'm like, Oh no, he's just making a connection. Well, he could have been making the connection that Peter is Spider-Man. Spider-Man. That's, that's what it is. Making the connection that he just said hi to Spider-Man. When I first, when I first walking out of the theater, I was thinking, Oh, Ned remembers. And I think that's kind of cool where it's like the friendship was stronger than the romantic relationship. Yeah. I thought that was kind of a cool idea.

[00:13:44] But then the more I thought about it, I was like, no, because MJ called Spider-Man Peter. And so he's now realizing that like, Peter, you're Spider-Man. Yeah. He's saying like, Oh wait, are you that Peter? Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah. Which, yeah. Which I don't know if Peter realizes that's what it is. And if he's now got too much hope. Oh, I don't know.

[00:14:11] Because he could, he could, because he could also be like, Oh, he remembers me. And, and meanwhile, Ned is just like, Oh no, I just remember. I'm just putting two and two together. Yeah. MJ said Peter and that's Spider-Man. So yeah, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see. I mean, I don't even know. Obviously it's made more money than like anything in about a week. So I'd be shocked if they didn't do another one, but they haven't, they haven't announced.

[00:14:39] Well, I heard, I saw, I saw something where Feige had said they plan to do another P or another Spider-Man with these, these actors. Okay. Um, but Tom and Zendaya are taking a break from editing because they've been nonstop. Because Zendaya's like in six movies this year. That's right. Right. And they've both just been like working and working. And so they both, I think have said that they're going to take a break for a little bit.

[00:15:09] And so Feige's like, yeah, Feige's like once they're done with that, we'll, we'll talk about it. Yeah. They want to, but. That's, that's showing uncharacteristic, uh, restraint on his part. I appreciate that. I would, I can wait a few years, I suppose. Right. And I also just. I'll have to, I guess. I just appreciate them as individuals too. Like as human beings, they're so.

[00:15:34] And for being so young to know exactly how to take care of themselves and take care of each other and make sure their career is long lasting, make sure their mental health is well. Like Tom Holland was in his twenties when he realized he needed to stop drinking. That's not a thing that happens very often. No. Like that. And he very easily could have gone the wrong direction. And he, you know, luckily he has a good support system around him and he's a smart kid.

[00:16:02] And, and we all get to benefit from that. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We do. Yeah. I think that's, um, well, a hundred percent. Yes. To all that you said, I really admire them as individuals and as a couple. And by the end of watching all of these over again, my, my fictional girlfriend is absolutely Michelle Jones Watson, because I hadn't, um, I didn't know. I knew who Zenzia was, I think when I saw homecoming, but I don't think I'd seen her in

[00:16:30] anything. And so you see that first movie and I'm just like, Oh, okay, here's her vibe. And now, however many years later, and I've seen her in other movies like challengers and stuff. I was like, Oh, she's like an idiot. I'm like, Oh, she's acting like this is a persona. So I really love what she does with that character. And even with just the sort of physicality and, and the rhythm of her speech that she brings to, to MJ is, is really something special.

[00:17:00] Speaking of fictional girlfriends. Yeah. My girl. She's so beautiful. She's so beautiful. I can't stop. I was just staring at her. Like I was between a twin and Josh and I was just talking to both of them. She is unfairly gorgeous. It's insane. She is. She is. And in an accessible way, like she still seems like a real person, which I think makes it, uh, accentuates it.

[00:17:26] Like she's somehow more gorgeous because you, you could believe like there are actresses. Um, Olivia Wilde, I always thought was too beautiful to be like a person in the world. I'm like, I've never met anybody like that ever. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like she, she exists. And I think that adds, adds, but you know, she's gorgeous. Absolutely. Yeah. Her for sure. But we're also, we're talking about Florence Pugh. Oh, oh, oh. I just know that's Karen's girl. That is the, I love her.

[00:17:56] I love her so much. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I will, I will admit as soon as she shipped, first of all, I think that her in that movie is a masterstroke of how you're supposed to use Marvel characters. Oh yeah. Uh, but for that entire scene, I was acutely aware that I was watching Florence Pugh in a bathtub the entire time. Part of my brain. Imagine being poor Tom Holland. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right? Poor little Tom.

[00:18:26] I'm sorry. I'm supposed to keep a straight face. Florence Pugh in a bathtub, in a swimming pool, in a, whatever she's in. I'm supposed to work. Whatever that's called. Bathhouse. Yeah. Yeah. I'm supposed to be working right now. I can't. I could never do this because. He said in an interview, he was talking about how he did. I assume because you see him like in his boxers or whatever. Yeah. He said he did like the dehydration routine where you drink a lot of water and then the

[00:18:54] next day you don't and you're supposed to look more cut or whatever afterwards. And in typical Tom Holland fashion, he was like, what actually happened is I just ended up really dehydrated and grumpy. So I can only imagine. And I love him so much. And I thought a lot about like how uncomfortable it must. I don't know how comfortable a Spider-Man mask actually is. You're just breathing through whatever that material is. So I don't. I'm sure it was fun. I think he said she's hilarious. She's the funniest person in the room.

[00:19:23] But I don't know how fun that scene was to film over the course of a day. Back to back to back. Yeah. She is just she I just I feel like hanging out with her would be such a blast. She's so funny. Yeah. She's just she's so down to earth. She's so like just no nonsense. She will just say whatever. And God, she's so beautiful. I love her so much. She's she's hot.

[00:19:50] Did you see if you guys seen We Live in Time with Andrew Garfield? I haven't watched it yet. You should. I know if you like Warren's Clue and romance, you should. And pain. You it's all this stuff. I love pain. Yeah. You're going to cry a lot. Yeah. I think that's why I've been I've been holding off on it. I'm like, it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt me. And I know it's going to hurt me. And these are two of the most beautiful people in the world who are going to fall in love and then break my heart. That's true.

[00:20:19] But I think as somebody who doesn't we talked about this last time I was on. I don't like pain. I really liked that movie and I was willing to hurt to get to the end of it. But no, she's oh, yeah. No, she's gorgeous. Everybody. I mean, yeah. Everything to me. Everybody in that movie. It's like they keep bringing like the best people into the MCU where it's like. Yeah. Yes. They don't feel like Pokemon. Get them all.

[00:20:45] I saw I just saw on social media the other day that somebody somebody was like, I would really love to see the trio of Peter, MJ and Ned meet up with the trio of Shang-Chi, Katie and Sha Ling. And I. Yeah. The chaos. Yeah. Yeah. I. Oh, my God. Would that be so funny? It would be so good. Yeah. I'm dying.

[00:21:13] I'm so excited for Shang-Chi to come back to the MCU. Yeah. I hope they I. You know what? I want to be more excited than I am. I. I I saw the Doomsday trailer and it was almost like, God, I really, I really want to be really excited. No, I'm not even scared that people are going to die. I'm just scared that it's not going to work. Guys, I just realized I've not seen this trailer. You. OK. I don't know how at all.

[00:21:43] No. She's in it. Yeah. I don't. No, I know. I just I'm just really I'm like, I don't think I've actually. My pearls. See, are you? Body snatched. I'm trying to contain myself. You've been body snatched. I don't know who you are. How is this possible? If it makes you feel any better, it's it's it plot wise. It's pretty general. But you get an idea of who might be in it. I'm terrified. I'm going to have to watch Loki die again. Oh, maybe. I'm I'm.

[00:22:11] There's been theories about my boy and I don't like it. Well, yeah, but you were scared about this movie, too, and it worked out OK. Kind of, sort of. I don't know. I'm trying to be scared. Trying to be reassuring. I'm scared, guys. You should be. I'm so sorry. Mom, forget me. I'm scared. I mean, I don't know. I hope they I hope they focus on one of the things I thought they did really well with this.

[00:22:39] I think they really focused on like making a good Spider-Man movie, period. This felt like Spider-Man. Yeah. And then I think they use. Yeah. Not all of them do. Yeah. And I also felt like there wasn't. I feel like one of the downfalls of phase four was the attempt to have like an ulterior motive. Like there was no ulterior motive in the Spider-Man movie.

[00:23:02] You know, it was just an isolated Spider-Man movie where, yeah, things from it could come back later in Avengers movies. But like I feel like a lot of what has been done recently has been in an attempt to get to that Avengers movie. It doesn't have to be a spider web. No pun intended. But it doesn't have to be a spider web of. Because that's. Well, it can just be a movie. Right. And that was one of the things where like why like so many people are like done with the MCU because it doesn't have, you know, what it did. I can't imagine.

[00:23:32] And I'm just like. But you do realize like when they started with Iron Man, they had no intention of doing Avengers. Yeah. That came later. And so it's like. Like I did think that phase four kind of. You want every movie to feel like Endgame. You want. And that's what it was. Sure. And so it felt like they flopped off for a little bit. But it was also right after a pandemic. Right. Sure. That was. That didn't help. Also. Yeah. And a cancellation and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. And also they had.

[00:24:01] They ended up doing things out of order. Like it was. WandaVision was never intended to be the first part of phase four. They overextended. Yeah. Yeah. They had too many different things. I feel like if they. Trying too hard. If they just repeated what they did. Which is to say if they. If they said let's make a really good Spider-Man movie. Let's make a really good Shang-Ti and all this stuff. And then by the time we get to Zoomze. You're going to be excited for what you mentioned Karen.

[00:24:28] Which is like the interaction of these characters that we've grown to know and love. Right. Because this time. And I might be. I hope I'm wrong. But it seems like the emphasis now is. Look guys. We're just going to bring everybody together. And some of them is going to be like the X-Men from the 90s. It's like well okay. I'm going to be excited about seeing Patrick Stewart. But like that has more to do with me. That's not a good story choice. Right. Like so I don't know. It's one of those things where it's. It's I think in this modern day.

[00:24:57] In this modern age of technology. Where everybody is so accessible. And the audience is able to very loudly speak. Whatever frustrations they have into the world. And the creatives are able to see that. Whether or not they respond. They do see that. It's not. It makes it harder. Because like I said. Back when we were doing Iron Man. Back when we were doing Captain America. And all of that. These were intended to be. This was intended to be an Iron Man movie. This was intended to be a Captain America movie.

[00:25:27] And then later on. As they got farther into like the phases. Was when they realized. We could bring them together. Like the Avengers. They didn't plan for the Avengers. They just did all of these movies. As individual origin movies. And then they're like actually. There's a thread here. And then they toss them into an Avengers movie. And then they did it again. And then later on. With Age of Ultron. And then later on. You know. With all of that. And so. It was a build up. But it wasn't.

[00:25:57] That wasn't the end goal. And I feel like now. With Phase 4. There we see. This is professional podcasting. Stuff right here. This is exactly. But like now. With. With. You know. With. Phase 4. And moving forward. It. There's this expectation. That everything has to relate. To something else. There's an Easter egg. In every single thing. There's. XYZ. Has to lead to. You know. All of this. And so. There's this sense of urgency.

[00:26:27] And this. This feeling. That they have to rush. To get to the end. And there's no reason for it. Like. The. Endgame took. Years. To get to. Like 11 years. Yeah. Infinity War. And Endgame. Would not have been. What it. What they were. Without all of the. The lore. Of build up. Agreed. I don't know man. I can promise you. They don't listen to bullying. Otherwise. Otherwise. I'm going to get in my soapbox. Hold on. Adam Driver.

[00:26:56] Keeps turning down the MCU. Because they will not give him. The hunt for Ben Solo. It's a Star Wars movie. I would give a fuck. About. Yeah. No. And I. Like. Soderbergh. Was on board. Take it. Everything was ready for that. Yeah. And Disney just said. No thanks. And so now. They keep asking him to come to the MCU. And he's like. No. Tell me that man. Wouldn't make an excellent villain. Yeah. He could do any number of things. I mean. That's again. The focus on. I wanted him as Reed Richards. But. On just good movies. Instead of. Interconnectivity. Yeah.

[00:27:26] And I think also. I mean. Appropriately enough. I think. This movie. Of how I would like to see an interconnected universe work. Where it's like. You've got Punisher. You've got the Hulk. And they're all hanging out together. And that's awesome. Right. But you don't actually. Like. If you. I had actually had a conversation with a. A co-worker of mine. Who saw it with her daughter. And she was like. I wish somebody would have been here to tell us. What it. She assumed. When she saw the conversation between Spidey. And the Punisher.

[00:27:56] Talking about Staten Island. She's. Well we must have missed that show. I was like. Oh no. No. They've never appeared before. They're just referring to something. That we. They've never appeared together. But we should know. Right. So we don't have to know anything for that. No. But. Yeah. But it's also like. It's been. Four years. Things have happened. Things have happened. Like. We don't have to see every single thing. Exactly. You know. That's exactly right. I mean. Imagine somebody coming into this. And being like. I'm sorry. That's the Hulk.

[00:28:25] I thought he was the big green guy. With glasses. Which I'm. I have issues with how. The Hulk was in his movie. I was slightly confused about that. Because they made a big deal in Endgame. About him. Fusing the two. And then. I'm very confused. They went to the inhibitor. Yeah. Yeah. The whole. The whole way they handled the Hulk. Was very confusing. Because. What do you mean? He. All of a sudden. He can't control him. He. Like. We regressed that bad. Right. The most charitable reading of that.

[00:28:55] Is that he. He decided. Instead of doing. Sort of. Best of both worlds situation. That he didn't want him around. At all. Well. Okay. The real answer is. They needed it to work this way. Right. So that he could talk to Peter. About the inhibitor. Right. But more charitable reading is. Maybe he decided. He. Didn't want the Hulk around. For whatever reason. But yeah. To have him. To have that arc. End with. What? He's going to a mental hospital. Because he. I don't know. I. Yeah. It's. It's.

[00:29:25] It's. It was weird. The whole time. Whenever he was on the screen. I was like. What do you. What? I thought we already fixed this. Yeah. We already fixed the Bruce Banner. A Hulk. Lore. Like. Yeah. And now we've. Unfixed it. And now we've. Unfixed it. My only. The only thing I can think of. That would make sense. Like. In world. Is if. There was. Something. Something to do with the spell. Right. Okay. That. Where. Oh right. Everybody forgot Peter.

[00:29:53] Maybe it'll be explained in doomsday. It's possible. That's. I doubt it. I don't think they're going to go through the trouble. I don't think they care enough. I don't know. No. I don't think they care enough. They don't care enough about the Hulk. Because they. How. They. You know. They. They don't care about him so much. That they did one movie. Where it was Edward Norton. Who. He's notoriously difficult. So. He's not Bruce Banner. I'm sorry. He's just not.

[00:30:23] Wonderful. I love you. I can do no wrong. I agree. I love that man so much. He's a good. He's very good. He's so good. But yeah. So like. I just. I just don't think they care about the Hulk. Well. He's tricky too. Because. My problem. The problem I've always had with the Hulk. Is that. Most stories I've seen. Are focused on. Trying to get him. Not to become the Hulk. Like. The. The crux of most of the story. Is like. Don't get me mad. Because otherwise. It's like. Well. Isn't the point. To.

[00:30:53] Guys. Deal with it. Yeah. I just need to deal with the anger. I just remembered She-Hulk. Oh. I never saw. I never watched. As much as I like Tatiana. It was good. No. But I just. I just remembered. That he. We see him. Isn't it. Post. No way home. I don't. I don't know where. It feels very mathematical. Wasn't. Isn't. Wasn't. She-Hulk. Get out of the flow chart. No way home. So. So like. He. He was still. He was still. Smart Hulk.

[00:31:24] Yeah. In She-Hulk. He. He. He didn't have any of. There was none of this inhibitor. They didn't even. There was nothing. Maybe we missed a throwaway line. I don't know. Because. Again. I think Mandy's maybe giving them a little too much credit. But. I just. I just don't. I think. That's admirable. I appreciate that. Yeah. I really think they just kind of fucked it up. Because I. Maybe so. I just. It doesn't make sense. There's nothing that makes sense. Unless. There's something to be explained later. Which again. I don't know.

[00:31:52] Because I don't think they care about the Hulk that much. Which. I think they literally. I love Mark Ruffalo. Either they said. Hey. Wouldn't it be great to bring him back. Period. Or they said. We need some. We need somebody to talk to Peter about. Maybe another way to do it. Would have found. Find another science oriented character in the MCU. To do it. And talk about the inhibitors. What's her name? Is it Emily? What's his? Eve? No. Is it Eve? The headset. Evie is. Evie. Evie. Yeah. Evie.

[00:32:23] Have her. Like. Be able to unlock some old Iron Man. Knowledge. Oh. Like a protocol. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Oh. An inhibitor. I'm seeing. Blah. Blah. Blah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. I liked it as a plot device. I liked. I think that's all it was though. I liked that they talked to the Hulk about it. Like. I liked their conversation about it. But what it did to the Hulk wasn't ideal. You're right. I think it. It. It. It was. Problematic in the fact that it destroyed. An entire storyline. That was already. Yeah.

[00:32:53] Worked out. It stepped it back. And. And they definitely. They definitely did it specifically. So that he could have that conversation. Because like. It was like. Oh. Well. Who else is he going to have that conversation with? If he doesn't. You know. Know anybody else. Essentially. He's all alone. Yeah. Iron Man's gone. He's all alone. Nobody remembers him either way. Yeah. Yeah. Like the old movies. They had. I mean. Doc Ock. They had. Dr. Conor. Like. There are. In Peter Parker's life. Along the way. There are professors. He could have just like. Gone.

[00:33:23] Yeah. We haven't seen. Right? We haven't seen this world. Yeah. Like Conor. And them. So that would have been. There could just be a guy. As long as they're introducing people. I mean. They went in. Right. I wasn't. I wasn't mad about Jean Grey. But as soon as they revealed Jean Grey. I was like. Okay. Great. So now. Now this is going to be a whole setup thing. Like we. You know. I was going to say. I think they used her okay. Yeah. I was trying to get to that. When we were. When we. Yeah. Before we started talking about Hulk. Hulk.

[00:33:54] It is so unsettling. How long it took my theater. To realize who she was. Because as soon as. Really? I avoided anything. To do. Oh. As soon as. So I didn't even realize. Sadie Sink was there. My husband and I saw the red hair. And we're like. Oh. But when each other. We're like. Oh my God. It's Jean. It's Jean. Yeah. When they show her name. In the file folder. Yeah. She's been here for like 30 minutes. The whole theater. What? And I'm like. I guess it's like a millennial thing. Like with all the X-Men. I don't mean to disappoint you.

[00:34:22] But I didn't catch it until they literally. They gave me. Are you serious? I didn't. I wasn't thinking that. Maybe I was kind of hoping. That it wouldn't be. A backdoor into. You know. And I felt. And the way that. You know. And I'm not saying. I. I. I loved this movie. I thought it was excellent. And I. And you know. The whole plot of it. It was. I loved the way that they did it. But. I will say. It was kind of giving.

[00:34:51] What's her name? America. In multiverse of men. Oh. No, no, no, no, no. Wait. No. The one that can make like star shaped. Yeah. Yeah. You know how multiverse of madness. Madness wasn't a doctor strange movie. It was a origin story for. Yeah. What is her name? I think. No, I think you're right. America being her first. America Chavez. America Chavez. Yes. Oh my God. It was going to drive me. Yeah. So. You know how like.

[00:35:21] How like multiverse of madness. Didn't feel like a doctor strange movie. It felt like an America Chavez origin story. That was kind of like. To a lesser extent. How this movie felt. It felt like a Jean Grey origin story. Not necessarily a spider-man movie. Even though. Spider-man also. Pissed me off. The what? Oh my God. Yeah. That pissed me off so bad. Canonically. Does she have a sister? I don't know. In the comics? I can't remember. I don't think so. I don't recall. I'm going to Google it.

[00:35:51] Let's see. Also as far as the red hair is concerned. Femke Janssen might have had red hair in the 2000 ones. I don't remember. But she's who I associate with. With Jean Grey. And not that that gives me much of an excuse. But she's a. She's a brunette. So. She. In the comics. Okay. She first appeared in 1980. She's an older sister. Oh nice. Unlike Jean. And Sarah was originally depicted as a human with no mutant powers.

[00:36:18] Representing a grounded connection to Jean's like early life. And family. She was married and had children. And became an advocate for mutant rights. And ended up being murdered by anti-mutant extremists. Okay. And her body was absorbed by the phalanx. Wow. So they changed a lot of that story. Yeah. To fit in this story. I feel like they got away with it only because I feel like. I feel like her arc worked within this movie.

[00:36:48] Like I. It did. I understand what she was doing. I understood the story. I liked that Spider-Man sort of. Saved her. As he. As he's continued to do. I mean they did this in No Way Home. They did not really with Mysterio. But like most of the villains that he's come up against. Are not purely evil people. Right. And so I liked what they did. I wouldn't call her a villain. No. No. Anti-hero. Yeah. No. It was a miss.

[00:37:16] It was a kind of a red herring. You guys watch Severance at all? Have you guys ever seen Severance? I need to. So I only bring it up because the guy that runs damage control is a bad dude in Severance. And you're just like, oh no, that's the villain. Sure. Like that's the guy. Yeah. He gave me bad vibes from the beginning, man. He's good at being creepy. I don't trust that guy. He's good at being creepy. But no, I didn't mind her using it.

[00:37:44] I wouldn't have been able to check on Silvera if they're rewriting the X-Men. Oh, I know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I have no idea what they're going to do. And that was kind of the thing is like, it was, if you're into X-Men, you're kind of excited to see her. But as soon as you figure out, if you're Mandy, you figure out real quick. If you're me, you see her name and you're like, well, obviously. I had a whole box set. But I watched the, what is it? Like I guess the early 2000s X-Men all the time. 97.

[00:38:14] I saw them in, oh, the cartoon you mean? Yeah. No. I mean like the Hugh Jackman. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Halle Berry. All of that. Oh, no. I saw those in theaters. I remember vividly. I loved those. Femke was a villain in my favorite James Bond movies. So I already knew who she was. Yeah. Whole tangent. But the very first James Bond movie I saw was GoldenEye in 1995.

[00:38:38] And she, she plays, she plays a, she plays a Russian named Xenia Onatop who kills people by strangling them with her thighs. No joke. But she plays a great villain. I mean, it's a violent villain. But yeah, I knew she was. Anyway, by the time 2000 moved around, I was like, oh yeah, okay. My nieces are, one of my nieces texted me a day or two ago and she was like, I'm prepping for Doomsday and I want to watch everything.

[00:39:07] Like, do I watch them release order, chronological order? And we had a whole, I was like, I'm not going to ask Ms. Karen for her spreadsheets. She's got one. And like just gave her feedback on both. Oh, that's so cool, Karen. And she was like, I'm, I'm currently utilizing it. I'm, I'm, it's been a while since I've watched everything like all together. And so I am currently, we're doing that right now, but I'm including like, uh, Agents of

[00:39:35] Shield and Agent Card and all of, all of, all of the stuff. That's a, that's a big task. That's what she's doing too. It's big, but it's really fun because my daughter has never seen Agents of Shield. So she liked it. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like, I love a good spreadsheet. So do I, um, do I do like the 2000 X-Men and I'm like, you don't know who you're talking to. Yeah. Like, yeah. I asked my husband just to not be biased and he was like, yeah, she, she should, if she

[00:40:05] wants to know, I think general information about the X-Men, even though it's not going to be Canon necessarily. But I think now if they bring back Wolverine from Deadpool. Wolverine. No, but that's what I mean. I feel like now, now the Fox Marvel movies are part of the, like they're, they're part of Canon, but in a, like. Yeah, but they're getting too clever with it.

[00:40:32] They're, they, like for instance, I know you haven't seen the trailer. Gambit, Channing Tatum's Gambit is fighting Chong Chi in the trailer. And I'm like, okay, that was like a one-off joke in Deadpool. Like what? I, I, I don't know that we need that. The funniest thing is, is that like, I feel like I've heard so much about this trailer and I've somehow not seen it, which makes no sense. I don't know who you are. I don't know who I am. It seems, okay. This makes no sense.

[00:41:00] You've, you've just established that you're going through the entire MCU with a spreadsheet and you haven't managed to see the trailer. It makes no sense. That's a weird, that's a weird, yeah. No, you need to go on that after this. I'm very shocked. Confused. I'm shocked by this. This is. I'm glad we can help you with this. It makes no sense. I'm very confused. I don't like it. I mean, like I said, to make you feel a little bit better, there aren't, there wasn't anything that made me like fall out of my chair, but it is helpful. There's no big potatoes. Yeah, no.

[00:41:30] No, no. The way that I'm going to be asking, is this a big potato or a little potato for the rest of my life? I know. But you gotta, you gotta do it in the accent though. She, just the way she says it is so funny. It's so good. These look pretty small potatoes. I'm just so glad the sad man has friends. That's again, that's the perfect. I'm pretty sure she cameoed. I read somewhere she like cameoed for free or something. I was like, that's the way to do it.

[00:41:57] If you want to, if you're thinking like, who'd be really funny to bring in? Like I'm just sitting in and talking to you and she's like, I'm just sitting in a room for a day. And Spider-Man talks to her and gets some information. Nobody is better than at that. Then for like the, the, the really, the sort of the humor and do it for like, I've bring a little spice to the movie and then she's out and it's like, great. That was great. We don't need to have a whole black widow subplot about what she's doing over here. We just know she's in her bathhouse Which was amazing that that's her office

[00:42:25] My favorite thing is when Is she the chief of police The chief police chief Goes to the bathhouse Goes to her office My skin feels amazing I can't remember if she was in another Spider-Man movie She's not Okay good because the way I fell out of my chair Because we love her in the bear Oh okay I'd never seen her before I've only ever seen her I've only ever seen her Winning awards for the bear Oh okay

[00:42:54] Josh and I are like bear fangirlies Because we've watched every season And so when she showed up I was like oh my god She's gonna cut I liked her I liked that Spider-Man had that relationship With somebody And that kind of conversation Have you guys watched The Punisher show were you guys Familiar with Bernthal's Punisher before She couldn't I watched it Some of it I had to turn away a lot

[00:43:22] Especially when they hurt Ben Barnes Oh yeah Oh no he's a bad dude And I completely forgot about that No he's not he's just misunderstood Oh no he's a flat psycho Mandy Very good looking psycho But he oh I forgot about that entirely My brother is like I can't do Shadow and Bone the show Because I cannot look at his face And he's like I loved it when they drug his face across the glass And I'm like you know that perfect face I had completely forgotten what that would do to you I forgot that he was in that

[00:43:51] It's been forever since I've seen the show But I only bring it up because One of the You could I'm sure you could Yes I can't believe I forgot your feelings for Ben But after seeing so many You even referenced it on the podcast When I was looking at Instagram Like what's she Oh no this is going to be a Ben's Barnes clip isn't it And it was And I was very proud of myself But no the show One of the things when I saw the trailer for Spider-Man I was like how are they going to take Punisher

[00:44:20] From a world that is so R-rated Into this And how is that going to work And I was really amazed Like they did a really good job It was so good I saw a TikTok Just I think it was last night Or it's the Hamilton Like we fought with him We And it gets them to the end And it's the Punisher I'm the damn fool that shot him I thought I would die That was I was I was I was emotional there at the end When he was apologizing And

[00:44:50] And I'm so sorry for what I did And Yeah Oh yeah Yeah Yeah That was the other That was the thing that really Made me cry Was the After he gets shot When the entire city Has rallied Around him And you've got like The Empire State Changes its colors Like I don't think there's another superhero That I can think of But maybe Superman But like That's that beloved by the community That he's helping

[00:45:18] Which doesn't always happen He's such a street level Like he is in fact Your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man Yeah And he Neighborhood Endears himself to the neighborhood And so they You know He is very much for the people And he always has been And that's what makes him so beloved I love it Do we think The little kid that like At him was Miles Morales Yeah Cause I've seen that theory It could be I mean it doesn't have to be I would love it I would love it It would be very cute

[00:45:48] I would love to see Miles Morales Come to life Not in a cartoon I just need I just need that third Spider-Verse I've been waiting for How many years now? Dude They ended it in the middle Of the movie Mandy Like there's There's He's stuck I love that Tom Tom specifically said That he wants to keep doing Being Spider-Man Until there's a live action Miles Morales Oh nice And then he's like Then I would feel okay Walking away Another thing I love Let him be Spider-Man

[00:46:18] And I have had to eat my words Because I would have thought That this person was great As far as their talent goes But I love the fact that Timothy Chalamet Was turned down For Spider-Man Maybe you should have learned Some ballet Because he couldn't move Oh yeah Oh yeah After what he's saying About Yeah I didn't know that About Tom Holland I didn't know until He was on Good Hang with Amy Poehler I didn't realize That he started in the West End In Billy Elliot And I

[00:46:47] That makes a lot of sense He's about to play Fred Astaire Fred Astaire Dude I have seen people People have been like Tom Holland as Fred Astaire I don't like And we're like Oh no A trained dancer Yeah Playing a trained dancer I don't see a better option Yeah God forbid Somebody who is qualified For this role Plays the role That'll be fun I I I mean I've given my love of dance Already I'd love to see him do that And if they have a Gene Kelly

[00:47:16] If Gene Kelly Shows up in some form In that movie I'm gonna be very happy to But No that's People have talked about that I think Chris Evans Has a little bit of a Like with the The fight choreography Just works better If you have a dance Background already And with the physicality Of Spider-Man I think I saw a clip On Instagram The slow-mo stuff Where they're recreating The scenes from the comics Where they In the movie Where they go through That five-year cycle And he's defeating All the villains And it's in slow-mo And he's doing these poses Apparently those are Comic book covers

[00:47:46] But also when they Were shooting these He's actually gotta Hit that pose In real time Like he's You know Obviously he's not moving In slow motion And Tom's command Of his body Is such that He was able to Emulate whatever that is And so he's got the He is Spider- He's probably my favorite I say with With reluctance Because I grew up on Toby But he is Toby is my Spider-Man But Yeah Toby's mine But Tom is the best Tom is better Yeah Agreed Agreed Yeah Alright well

[00:48:16] We grew up with Toby You know Toby will always Have that special play Which is It's so funny Because like Even in No Way Home Andrew Garfield Was like The one that was Like on the outside He's popping Oh sure He was like He was like The Spider-Man That was Peter 3 Peter 3 Yeah Yeah Because Because Tom Holland Is the current Spider-Man Toby's the one We all grew up with And Andrew's The middle child He's kind of overlooked

[00:48:45] Andrew was a great actor That was put in some Not so great Spider-Man movies I feel like They could have been They could have been better Which is unfortunate Like if I never watch His movies again I don't think I've seen them Since I own them I don't think I've seen them Since I did Like a rewatch A long time ago Yeah I think we lived In my townhouse Which was 2012 Yeah It's just unfortunate Because he is He is in fact The middle child He's wonderful But like I think a lot of us

[00:49:15] Grew up like Toby is our Spider-Man And Tom is the best Yeah And Andrew He was Well the whole reason I ever got into I wasn't really Into superheroes I certainly wasn't Into comic book That Spider-Man 2002 movie Was like Was my thing I vividly remember I was like a freshman In college And just all of The memories Associated with that movie And the poster And the vivid colors And the

[00:49:43] It spoke to so much About my personality That I didn't realize Where even in that movie I think one of the first lines Is like This story Like any story worth telling Is a story about a girl Like it's a It's a romance The whole reason He's And so That movie Was the only reason I think I probably Would have found my way Into the MCU anyway Because I love Robert But like that got me Into Spider-Man In particular And so Toby will always be And that first movie And Green Goblin And second one But

[00:50:14] So I've always been A little conflicted People are like Who's your favorite Spider-Man I was like Look objectively There's a lot of nuance To that There is a lot of nuance To answering that question Yeah My favorite uncle Is like Ten years and a week Older than me So like He was the coolest person I knew As a kid Like He had a garage band In my grandparents Basement Like Nice Purple hair Sometimes I thought he was so cool And he was a Spider-Man kid So I was naturally

[00:50:43] Like I had no choice My 13th birthday party Was Spider-Man To this movie I wore My Converse Chuck Taylors From middle school That still have The Spider-Man laces From middle school Yes Yes I'm like I wear them To every Spider-Man movie That comes out Because it's like This is tradition This is Yeah Like even more than Loki Yeah Even like I'm a Spider-Man girl More than anybody else In the MCU I didn't wear my Spider-Man shirt But I wore

[00:51:13] The very first thing I bought With How to Dance money Is my Spider-Man watch I have a Spider-Man Like a nice Spider-Man watch And so I wear it To like all my Author events And this is my Like reminder That I made money On a book And so I wore it To the movie And wearing it On the podcast But yeah No I'm a huge Huge Spider-Man And with every Year that goes by I realize all That I relate to In the character The idea of having Gifts But actually Second time I watched The movie

[00:51:43] Marissa Tomei Who for some reason Still looks Unbelievable Okay I don't understand I was sitting there Trying to do the math And I'm like I'm sorry What do you mean She was 60 There's no way That woman is 61 years old I'm sorry What? It's some death Becomes her stuff She's doing I don't know Yeah She's amazing She I've loved her for years And I don't I think it's called Only You But her and Robert Downey Jr. Were actually in a romance

[00:52:12] Movie together So I have to go rewatch that Just for kicks I remember hearing about that I don't know if it's any good But I might just For kicks What was I Oh she gives a beautiful speech Where the memory thing Where it's like You're an extraordinary person And I would think that Would make you happy All the time But I know it won't And I know that You'll be lonely And I'm like Yeah that No I get that Like that And that That part of Smiter Man Always spoke to me Of like I've got these gifts And so I have to use them But it's gonna be

[00:52:42] A pain in the butt Sometimes And so yeah No I just love Everything about that And one of the reasons I love this movie Was its emphasis on Who am I going to be And what is that Gonna look like And okay Now if I try to be Spider-Man too much I'm gonna try to get These people out of my life Because that's too painful But it turns out I can't go too far In that direction Because now I'm all screwed up So I've gotta find a way Yeah And also like The importance of community Yes Yes 100%

[00:53:12] Yeah I feel like it's so easy Especially nowadays To like kind of Be in your little Solitary bubble And it's a nice like Slap in the face To be like Your community Really really matters Like look Spider-Man's struggling Because he doesn't Have community What about you Regular person Where's your community Like make sure They should have had you Do the PSA At the end of the movie The end credits scene Should have just been Karen going How about you Regular person How's your community life

[00:53:42] Look Hello I'm Karen From the incoherent Fan group I'm an aunt With teenagers Aunt May gets me Especially this Aunt May Because she's like Young and fun We're like Yeah Our Aunt May Was a little old lady Yeah Yeah well they've That's the joke too Is they've gotten Progressively younger It was Yeah It was Rosemary Harris Who looked like She was about 85 And then it was Sally Field Who okay 60s And then Marissa Tomei Just looks young So But like

[00:54:11] Every time she talks Waterworks now Yeah The waterworks Just come on Yeah It's like Pavlov's bell My little nieces are here And I'm like Oh my god Yeah Well that's the other thing Is like What you relate to As you get older Like the Your relationship To the movies And like Okay Do I Am I empathizing With Aunt May Or with Spider-Man Or What's my relationship To all of this Yeah So that's That's interesting too I think But I was really Happy with it Yeah

[00:54:41] That was such a good movie Yeah Yeah I was I was a little nervous I was nervous I have this weird thing Where I'm nervous Every time Somebody I love Does something else Where I'm like Well that's going pretty well I hope I hope like You know You go to see Billy Joel in concert again It's like Well it was great The last time But he's older now So maybe You know And same thing With Spider-Man It was like I loved No Way Home I really hope Now that they're Rolling the dice They're gonna They're gonna bring it home And they They did

[00:55:10] My first initial Because I want Everything tied up And I want Well there's a weird thing Where I want Lack of conflict But then I realize It doesn't make For a good story So I I did want MJ on some level To remember him But you guys Have made a great case For why And the second time I saw the movie I was like This is actually Better Because now They've got a new Dynamic That you can play with And I thought It was very sweet When she They had that whole speech You know I don't love you

[00:55:40] But then he takes her home And she says Hey do you Do you want to come up And say hi to Ned Like do you I believe you I believe that this Has actually happened And we're gonna Like let me try to see What I can do for you Was really sweet And her drawing Of them Yeah Yeah You guys look like Best friends Because they are It's because Oh yeah exactly Exactly right To see the three of them Just hanging out together Even though Like they don't know him It's just Like they were meant

[00:56:09] To be a trio They were meant To be together And they did a really good Probably wasn't intentional But from what I've seen In interviews Those guys Grew up together You know Like they are They are good friends And I think Tom was at Jacob's Like bachelor party Or some such I'm sure they were The Tom and Zendaya wedding Like they They've grown up Over the last ten years And they seem to get along well And lucky for us That works on screen I'm so glad That they didn't Make her and Ned

[00:56:39] Get together though Like Oh jeez It's always A platonic friendship Yeah Well I wouldn't have bought it I just would not Right Exactly It would have felt Too forced Yeah It would have been a way To torture Peter more though Right Oh my best friends Are really moving on Without me But I'm glad They didn't do something So like easy And yeah I mean maybe Maybe it's just the energy Maybe it's just the energy Maybe it's a little unfair To Jacob Batalon But I'm like If I would not have believed A love scene Between him and Zendaya

[00:57:08] I just would not I wouldn't have bought it I could buy him With somebody else I bought him with When they do that Running gag With him and Betty When they go to Europe And they're together For a minute Like I bought that Yeah I don't think I don't think Zendaya I don't think I would have gotten on board I think There's a I think there's a limit To opposites attract And I think we found The limit with Jacob Batalon And Zendaya There you go Or specifically Right there on that line Not with the Not with the actors But specifically with those characters

[00:57:38] With Ned and MJ I think they are Far better as friends Because of the way Their personalities are Yes And I think that's why She works so well With Peter Because he kind of Straddles the line Between the two of them And he Just plays off Of her I mean obviously Their real life chemistry Plays into it Of course But like I think just the way That the characters Are Like Putting MJ and Ned Together Would have been

[00:58:07] The creatives Behind the scene Trying to force something Like you said To torture Peter more Rather than to Aid the story It would have just It would have been The easy way out The easy way to Make him realize Like oh This is My life sucks Yeah And they had some The easy way out there But they did for the Hulk No they did And they had some good They had some I'm thinking of the one scene In particular When Ned and MJ Are talking about

[00:58:37] She interviewed for a job She got it And she turned it down And there's a really good Exchange in the kitchen Where I believe These guys had been friends For like You know Throughout college and stuff And he was advising He's like look Don't you want the job And she's like Here's why I don't And that dynamic Really worked Like I thought Them as friends Was really neat But I also agree That the Hulk I love Mark Ruffalo I was happy to see him But he probably does I also I think I could I could see it Where

[00:59:06] If they tried To force Ned and MJ together Like if The original script For example Had said something like that That I could see The three of them The actors Push back on it And be like I don't think That's authentic I don't I understand What you're trying to do I don't think That's authentic To the story And so I could see Absolutely them Trying to do it And then the actors Being like Actually that's not Going to work Yeah And I think I read Crazy if the Jackal theory Is right though That's true And I will credit you

[00:59:35] For informing me About that Because I had no I had no idea I did I think I read Or at least a lot Of the PR push For this one Was that Tom was really In the writer's room On this And I don't think They would have Ever gotten To the point Where they would Have done that With me Yeah Yeah I It's funny Because I think Just days before I went to see Spider-Man A thing popped up In my Facebook

[01:00:05] Memories And it was me Reposting an Announcement Where Dustin Daniel Cranton Was going to Direct the Kang Dynasty And I was so Excited Because I love Him as a Director And for him To have his Hands in this Project And to direct This one And for it To be so good I'm just like Please give him Everything Yeah I would recast Instead of just Scrapping the Kang I mean they Recast so many People Let everybody Else who was

[01:00:34] Excited To make that Project Yeah Right Just because One shitty Person Like Okay listen You recast Terrence Howard You recast Edward Norton You like And especially For a character That's like In a multiverse And got so many Versions of it It would be easy You're just like I look like this Now You got a new Face Like Yeah Yeah It's a comic book Movie We're not gonna Need much Like Right

[01:01:04] Kills me Which I'm hoping D23 They're gonna Announce Something God You know I'm on board I'm I'm I'm Conditionally On board For whatever They wanna do I will be Forever on board With Spider-Man I'm glad That he directed This one Because it Seemed And I don't Have the technical Language for it But just the way They shot it The acrobatics It seemed More grounded It seemed Like they were Doing a lot More Actual stunt Work with it And it's I loved The visuals And I Can

[01:01:33] I could See I could See The like The similarities In the direction Of the film Compared to Shang-Chi You know Because it's Very Freezes And he's like This is so cool Like when they're Oh with the hand Yeah In a pose God that's cool Yeah Yeah And just the movement As we all thought Yes Yeah Just the movement Of everything The way Yeah I think You can definitely See his hand In this film And I think

[01:02:03] That also Helped with Like Kind of the levity Of it Even though it's Very like There's a lot Of heavy stuff In there Right We're talking About depression We're talking About like This lack Of community Losing yourself All of this stuff But there's a lot Of levity In that too And I think Having Especially Knowing him To have done Shang-Chi And how funny That movie was Yeah I think A lot of that Got brought into Spider-Man And I Just I want him To do So much more In

[01:02:33] Yeah This wider MCU universe He was so good It actually Shang-Chi was frustrating To me Because It started With such a Grounded fight On the bus Which I love Goes on To like Something on The scaffolding Which I also love And then by The end of the movie They're doing The like Monsters in the sky Thing again I was like I just want him Doing kung fu Like on the ground Like you know Doing all the Punching and kicking Stuff Like we don't I think That might have been

[01:03:02] Another Marvel casualty Of like We need to make The stakes Very high We need to have People coming Out of the sky Like you have to You know I don't know See for me I'd be on board With him directing Absolutely For me It felt Weirdly nostalgic Okay Because it was very It was very reminiscent To me of all Of like the sea dramas That I used to watch As a kid Oh cool Like the big Like their big Over the top Fight scenes Where it's like He's flying in Like this

[01:03:32] And then there's This coming up And they look Like they're But they're just Regular people And it's like It's And that's what It felt like Like I will hear No Shang-Chi slander Quite frankly I loved that movie I liked the movie I did But I think That was what Frustrated me about it I think what it was Is was like It was this kind Of culmination Or not culmination But this combination Of like this I feel like Shang-Chi Is very much An Asian American Superhero In that he Starts this film Like you said

[01:04:02] Very grounded Very like Street level Kung fu Fighting Regular people Kind of thing And then it moves Into this more Fantastical Where that's more Of like the The Asian side Of it if you will Where he's He's like Exploring like His family's history And there's all Of this like Mythology behind It where he Ends up having To fight a Fucking dragon You know Like And so for me It was just like It was just this Really lovely

[01:04:32] Combining of the two And like I said With especially With the way That it felt Very sea drama To me Like it just Yeah Worked so For me personally You know I have such a Connection to that Oh no you don't Need to defend it I completely understand And I think I think like We were talking About the connection To the Spider-Man movies I think I think What you bring To it Because I had None of that Context at all I didn't know Who Shang-Chi was Until I saw the movie So Everybody's looking For something Slightly different

[01:05:01] In any film Really And for me Even You know Don't hate me But I don't read A lot of fantasy Because I I need it To be Even Even the fantasy I have read Okay Mandy's book Is a really good Example I liked Mandy's Book a lot But I liked Mandy's book A lot In part Because What you were Doing with all Of the fantasy Stuff was very Grounded in who The people were And why they Were acting That way So I will be On board For a big

[01:05:31] Like let's Fight monsters In the sky As long as I care about The people In the movie Which is why I think sometimes Yeah Sometimes Marvel With its Let's shoot For an extravaganza It's like okay But do I care About anybody Any Like you know Can I follow Them on the ground Or do we just Have a whole Thing going on Would I follow Them into battle For this Yeah And if you can Give me the most Outlandish premise In the world Like really

[01:06:03] Yeah And it's like Spider-Man Like I Align with all Of the women Of the MCU When Is it Endgame It's Endgame Where they're like Hey Peter Parker Put him behind us Yeah Yeah Put that baby Behind us I would lay my life On the line For Peter Parker Yeah Yeah Yeah That was fun I didn't watch I rewatched His introduction But I didn't Rewatch Endgame Again For that part But him just being Sort of awestruck And befuddled For that entire scene

[01:06:33] Is really funny Where he's just Kind of getting Bunded back And then The back and forth He had with Tony for a second It's like Do you remember When we were in space And then everything Went dark And then Doctor Strange Was there Okay Speaking of What do we think Because I only have A few more minutes And then I have to go Okay What do we think Of Spider-Man in space On the Spidey tracker I think it has Something to do With Doomsday I don't know why He would I thought it was A multi-dimensional Type deal I don't know What planet He's going to end up on But

[01:07:03] My husband thinks It's Toby What's the He's going to Okay I mean I don't know If it's been confirmed Or if he just thinks That Toby's going to be In Doomsday I think I wouldn't mind Seeing them again But Doomsday Okay Remind me But like Doomsday is on Comic canon Like it's on a Doomsday planet Right They all get Brought to a planet And something happens Right Everybody Well like Everybody who's

[01:07:32] In Doomsday Not like Not like the whole world But like The superheroes End up On a planet On a separate planet For some reason or another Like They get brought there I thought it was Doctor Doom Yeah I don't have any Comic experience For this But I don't know I mean Again To the grounded point Like They can go anywhere Universes Oh Oh All right And that's why Toby is heavily rumored Because it's three MCU Universes

[01:08:02] That collide Well so we've got That's why we're getting X-Men X-Men We've got our regular MCU Our current MCU And then Toby Okay Is Loki technically Still in our MCU Because Loki fixed All the shit That Captain America broke Loki's In ours still Right Because Didn't want to break it too No I don't want to say that But Loki's I think Loki Is Fixed the timelines Fixed He's in our I think Loki is Our universe Is he our universe He's our universe

[01:08:32] But like Outside of time Okay See but Are they going to need To explain all this In Doomsday Like how much Shoe leather Are they Or how much time Are they going to I don't think that I think it's just Going to be a matter Of like I think it's going To be a matter Of like very similar To how No Way Home They just kind of Appeared And they figured it out On screen Where it's like Oh you're from A different universe Then it's going to be A very similar thing To where like It could be something

[01:09:01] Even just A quick throw away Like you don't look Like the Reed Richards That I know Sure Sure Because again We also have many Fantastic Four universes Out there too So that is what I told my niece I was like The most important Things you need to Have are the Loki show WandaVision Okay Yeah And Obviously like Endgame Yeah Endgame Whenever Yeah Cap decides to go back Yeah I wouldn't I mean They did such a good job

[01:09:31] With Toby and Andrew Before I If they If they bring them again They're going to be Rolling the dice It was that thing I just explained earlier Where it's like I was so happy With the way you did it And if you bring them back again And it's going to disappoint me I think it could be I think it I think it could work really well If they don't have any interaction With Tom Oh okay Yeah Like if If for some reason Cause I feel like

[01:10:00] The way that It could get hokey Yeah Cause I think You said it's the three universe I think it's They pull certain characters From certain universes So it could be like You could get I don't want to tell you Who we've seen In the preview Oh It's fine But no But it could be like Well I'm going to pull it up After this anyways But like It could be like You could pull Right You could pull Patrick Stewart And McKellen And then you can pull Toby And then you pull Somebody from

[01:10:30] Our current MCU And then they are like The team Or whatever And so like Can I tell you So then Tom Won't be there at all Essentially You know That kind of thing Tell me I'm about to Watch it Right after this So is that a no? It doesn't matter I'm not sure I didn't want you to be like I'm going to watch it later Don't tell me you went No It's Steve Rogers Shows up Oh No Cap shows Yeah No it's Steve Rogers

[01:10:59] It's not Captain America A version of him It's No I've seen an interview Where he He specifically says Nomad He's not But what universe Is he from Is he He's from Hours Has he left Homegirl in the past And come back Like Well there's In the comics There's a There's a Whole separate Like storyline Where Steve Rogers Is not Captain America He's Nomad And so From the interview That I had seen And I had I think We had seen

[01:11:29] What's his face Chris Evans Months ago As being in this movie Yeah As being a part of this movie Because he was part of a teaser He was in a teaser Yeah So like Yeah Like Chris Evans Has already been announced As part of this movie Him and Thor And the X-Men And Black Panther All had separate My husband was hoping The arm When he I think it's like A handshake or something He was like God I was hoping It was Matt Murdock again He did the They did the Thor's hammer thing Thor gives him Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah You're right But yes So I

[01:11:59] I think I remember Seeing like An interview I think it was like Right after Or during even Right after the panel At Comic Con I think Where a bunch of them Were talking to somebody And somebody had asked Chris Evans Like about Steve Coming back And he had said Something like I had always You know I was always open To the idea Of Steve Rogers Coming back I was always open To the idea Of a Nomad storyline But It never It never That we never Got the right script

[01:12:29] And I think Now Is when And so like That was something I'd like To hope so That's kind of my whole We'll see That's my whole Fear with this movie Is I'd love to think That somebody Got Chris Evans And he goes At last A good script What I saw What I thought When I wrote that trailer Was like Oh they They need some Oomph for this movie And so They got him You know They backed up They backed up A Brinks truck Or whatever I hope That somebody Has like

[01:12:58] In the writer's room Is like You know What would be awesome Like I I don't know Maybe I'm a little Cynical by this point But I think Like Going back To this whole Like They're pulling people From different universes Thing Where they're Kind of And it's not Necessary And they all end up On like A doomsday planet Kind of thing I think If they pull Steve Rogers From When he's Nomad And then They pair him up With like Captain America Sam Wilson And he's like Oh it's the Steve

[01:13:28] I know And then You bring in Tobey Maguire As Spider-Man And they're like Oh it's Spider-Man But they wouldn't know That it's not their Spider-Man That's true Oh because The mask Because of the mask But also They don't know Peter Parker As Spider-Man You know what I mean True Right And then And then Like And then They And then All of a sudden They see Downey As Doom And they're like Yeah You know So it's I think there's a way For them to do it That's the thing Downey can have The same face With two different things But we can't recast

[01:13:58] Kang Yeah I think Karen Should be writing These movies I don't really know Yeah come on Get on it ma'am Listen if I were To write any Marvel movie We would already Have Cindy Moon In the MCU I'm so sorry Why is she not here I am I'm waiting She's so many things You could fix I'm waiting So much good You could do Karen I'm very With great power Comes great responsibility Yes See

[01:14:27] I can't be responsible Guys That's This is not a good plan I'm not good At responsibility No no I understand With great power Does come great responsibility Which is why I am not in charge Of anything I cannot be responsible It's very self aware Okay Let's do Final thoughts Final thoughts Last Little comments About

[01:14:59] Future of the MCU Doomsday predictions Tom Holland is a perfect Spider-Man And if Loki dies again I might go with him I should hope not Tom Holland is a perfect Spider-Man I would like at least One more Spider-Man movie I am on board For Doom Actually I'm acting like I'm not going to see These movies I will probably See these movies For as long as They keep putting them out I just I want to be more excited About Doomsday Than I am I would like to give them Every opportunity To get it out of the park

[01:15:29] And This particular movie I loved Everybody in it So More Florence More Punisher More Spider-Man I liked it all I need to rephrase Not only If Loki dies I'll die with him But If the sun doesn't Rise on us again Brother I'm not going to be okay So many emotional pitfalls I fear for you But Well I'll help you through it After

[01:15:58] We'll have to do another one of these After we will say Because There's going to be a lot of There's going to be a lot of thoughts A lot of A lot of emotions Secret Wars Is like a year later Right We've got We've got two of them Okay Yeah Yeah We were I think Hadn't they planned for Yeah Like A lot A lot And it was way out So We'll see how it goes I just We got Ghost Rider We got Ghost Rider coming Gosling's in the MCU See We keep getting all the greats Give us

[01:16:27] I mean I'm excited about If anybody could Could make me excited About anything again It would be him I know I know He doesn't miss No he doesn't And I really love Like I don't know if you guys saw Where he was like Saying like I've been trying to get Ghost Rider Into the MCU And he's like We got this script It's not gonna Yeah Yeah But like Ghostling has been trying To get like The right script In front of the right people At the right time My favorite Is when my nieces Talk about him to me And I'm like

[01:16:58] Yeah We know him I was here before You were born Just like A little movie called The Notebook People We know who he is Don't Don't Talk about The dark magic To me Which I was there When it was That's right I saw him In middle school Georgia history Or something like that They didn't have anything To do So they're like We're gonna watch This movie Fall Guys Another one I love But anyway Go ahead My final thoughts If anything happens To Bucky

[01:17:28] I You'll never see me again I already lost Wanda I already lost Wanda If I lose Bucky too I'm so sorry guys You're just never Gonna see me again If anything happens To Florence Pugh I'm burning the world down Yeah She'll be fine She's more than capable She'll be over time But you know what That She'll be the last one standing She'll be like On your own day Big potatoes Honestly I don't think They've done enough Groundwork to earn

[01:17:57] Killing people yet I think if I think if actors Want to leave the MCU They might But it might just be Hey we don't see Bucky around I don't think They're gonna shoot anybody Cause they need All their characters Right now They don't have enough Of a The way What was it The way that That What was it That you sent me Mandy Where somebody was saying Like The only way Bucky can go Is if he saves Morgan If he gives his life To save Morgan In kind of a Full circle In a circular like

[01:18:27] Because he killed Tony I took your parents I took your dad So I'm gonna save your child I'm gonna save your kid And I'm like I mean that would work I guess that makes sense But I don't want it to happen Okay But again You haven't We haven't laid the groundwork I would be very surprised If they did that I feel like Just trying to comfort you A little bit I feel like There's gonna be If not Emotional gut punches Like that They're gonna be In very dire straits At the end of it

[01:18:56] Similarly to like Thor is very worried In that trailer You haven't seen Thor is very concerned It's gonna be It's gonna be Very very dire straits It's gonna be like We walk out of Infinity War And be like What the fuck was that Sure Yeah I could see that Yeah So we'll see How it goes Well I know you have to go Mandy I won't I won't keep Rattling on Yeah I just don't Thank you Jason Oh it was more than a pleasure Thank you It was so great To see you guys

[01:19:25] We will see you again When Oh boy No Doomsday And I'm writing Faster than ever Just so I can come back That's half the motivation For publishing anymore Is like Actually especially Because I was eating dinner And listening to last week's episode And you've got these two girls Who you know And they've both published Like four books And I'm sitting there Reading my Wendy's Like what am I doing With my life Like You're working on

[01:19:54] Your own timeline I am Exactly I am in a day job And all that Pressury these days About people's writing timeline Gee I wonder why Well Mandy I eagerly await yours I did have a little talk With my editor today So Yeah She's more forgiving Of everybody's timeline Except for Tahira Mafi Okay Okay God He needs to write faster For Mandy Sure Well I eagerly await yours And like I said That was my one My one misgiving About not being on social media As much It's like

[01:20:24] How am I going to know What's going on with Karen Obviously the answer is Just listen to the podcast Every week But everybody needs to read Mandy's book And yeah Yes Thank you We love having you We'll talk soon I love both of you too Bye bye Bye Bye God I love him so much I've been telling Josh All week I'm so excited We're talking to Jason This week I love him I love him It's been so long That was so much fun I know It's been too long

[01:20:53] We just need to find An excuse every year Like we can talk about Doomsday But then like what's next We need to have a plan We can do it It's been too long Without Jason time I know I know We just need to schedule Like an annual zoom Or something Yeah Just for that Bonus Patreon content Oh Oh Oh Hey Okay I love it All right Let's make some announcements I got to go pick up a car I don't got

[01:21:22] Oh I was so excited I was so excited I didn't have to grab a book today I was wrong Okay I have it It's okay Anyways Mandy has the book So next week we are talking Oh next week is going to be so much fun Because not only are we talking to Sherry B. Pennant About These Kindred Hearts She's the editor of this anthology We're also talking to Angela Montoya Vanessa Montalban And Maggie Takuda Hall It is going to be A packed episode It's alphabetical I can't find them all this quick Montalban Montoya Maggie

[01:21:51] Yes Yay So it's going to be so much I'm so so excited It's going to be such a good time So stay tuned That is next week And bonus The book is out The anthology is out now So you could read it You could read it And then come join the conversation Know what we're talking about Right Or you could go to our Patreon Go to our Patreon And give us questions To ask Throw some questions in there Yay I'm so excited So that is next week And now Time for a spiel

[01:22:21] Yay If you enjoyed this episode Please like, follow, and subscribe Wherever you are listening to us Follow us on social media We are at TheIncoherentFangirl On all the things Visit our website TheIncoherentFangirl.com Where you can also stream All of our episodes As well as read our blog Subscribe to our Patreon For early access To podcast episodes Full video episodes Bonus content And the opportunity To ask questions of our guests Like we said It's a good time If you're interested In some merch You can shop our merch store At TheIncoherentFangirl.com Slash shop

[01:22:50] Sometimes Mandy gets bored With an iPad And we all reap the benefits Of that Go shop Lots of cute stuff there You saw Jason wearing some Yes And I have I'm over here trusting my Tangle Trust your Tangle, dude Trust your Peter Tangle Okay If you have any comments Questions, concerns Suggestions, design ideas You want to tell us We're pretty You want to add To the Spider-Man conversation We're happy to have that Okay Send us an email TheIncoherentFangirl At gmail.com We love hearing from y'all

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[01:23:50] You're going to go to HereComesTheNerd.com Get you some cute pins And artsy goodies Use code Fangirl And you'll get 20% off Your first order Then you're going to head to OnceUponABookClub.com You can subscribe You can buy A standalone box Or any goodies they have If they still have it You can get the Advent 12 Days of Bookmas box That yours truly Wrote a little story for Fun fact The characters I had in mind Were Tom and Zendaya That's the people

[01:24:20] I had in mind writing And you're going to go Check out And you're going to use Code Karen10 To get 10% off But if you don't Spell Karen right You're going to get No% off And you're going to Have to watch a version Of Doomsday Where Loki and Bucky die And Spider-Man Oh no The worst timeline For you I don't like it Oh Karen right Why would you Put that into the universe I don't like it That hurts We're moving on

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[01:25:19] So just FYI You could just get One book But why would you Want to When she's got So many good ones Yeah Agree Last but not least You can support my family You can follow The show husband He's at Born of Josh On all the things You can follow At Searchers Believe That's his paranormal Investigation group If you go to Searchersbelieve.com Shop you can get Some spooky shirts And stickers Made by me And an iPad You can follow At Searchers Podcast Which maybe Will come back

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[01:26:17] And last but not least I wrote a book It's called The Living and the Dead It's about a girl Who was born a ghost But ages like the living And the reaper Who would die To get her to look at him I'm on all of The major retailers Websites But if you would like An autographed And personalized copy You can go to Aepervis.com And use code Erin Warner For 10% off Because it wouldn't be me If I didn't make something About Erin Warner I would also like to Very much point out That if you read the book You need to understand

[01:26:46] That the main male character Has Tom Hiddleston's face Tom Hiddleston's face It's very important That you know this Okay It does So Yes You should You should go You should go do that Go get the book It's very good And that was A very special episode Of the Thank you Thank you We love you Bye Bye We are sponsored By our friends At Here Comes the Nerd

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