Please Sir, Can I Have Some More?

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Kayla Hardy, the author of The Quarter Queen. Hello, I'm Ellen O'Clover, the author of The Heartbreak Hotel and If Not You. I'm here on the Incoherent Fangirl podcast. And you are listening to the Incoherent Fangirl. Welcome to the Incoherent Fangirl. Where all of my books have disappeared. And if you're on Patreon, you'll notice that I look like I'm being beamed up. We're gonna lose her guys. We gotta go quick. Call Mulder and Scully stat.

[00:00:31] Oh man, I am Karin from New Orleans. And I'm Mandi of The Art Room. Welcome back to the podcast. We've got fun stuff coming real soon. I'm very excited. I look different because I'm in Orlando, by the way. I'm still recording, but in the call room. Where she's apparently being kidnapped by aliens. Yeah, I gotta fix this light. I can't handle it. It's fine. It's so funny though. I know.

[00:00:59] Those of you who aren't on Patreon, you have no idea. All right. Well, in our timeline, it is September 10th. And in Y'all's timeline, it's September 18th. Crazy. And I am in San Diego. I'm in San Diego. Yay! Yay! Yes. All right.

[00:01:23] That sound means we have an intruder alert. Oh, I'm so excited about this intruder. It took like two words for us to say yes to this. So we're really excited. We're here with Kayla Hardy, author of The Quarter Queen. I only have my box, but my book is inside. I haven't taken it out yet. But we're so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

[00:01:51] Okay. So the first question we always ask, we like to joke it's like the hardest question, is can you give us the elevator pitch of the book? I don't know. I think I can. Sips tea, sips water. You're like, let me think. Hold on. I think I got this. I think I got this. So the Quarter Queen is essentially what I have to call sinners meets the witcher. So it's basically like this, I don't know, period set in like an

[00:02:17] alternate fantasy New Orleans, not too different from ours, but slightly heightened, in which Mille Laveau, the famous voodoo priestess, is hexed into a coma by her former lover and teacher, kind of a bad boy in the quarter, and forcing her party girl daughter to like basically embrace her demons, her mother's demons now, like basically are hers. And I don't think Ree is that kind of character that ever wants to do that. And basically might become the Quarter Queen in the process. And so to me, it is pretty much like sinners meets the witcher because you

[00:02:45] kind of have this like factional magical warfare that's going on in the middle of all these politics, which situated in the mother daughter story. It's so good. And that is like perfect comps. Yes. Thank you. Perfect comps. We had to fight. Okay. So obviously I'm from the south. So like maybe it's a area thing. But obviously, if you've not been living under a rock, you know who Marie Laveau is. You've at

[00:03:11] least heard the name, right? But where did this particular story come from? Like what made you like, I have to tell Ree's story? Well, it started with Marie, to be honest. Like, actually, they kind of shared it at first before it got acquired by Valentine. Like they were like every other chapter is like alternating. And my editor was like, you don't have to like redo this a little bit. So lots of rewriting, the unglamorous part of getting a book deal. But I'm, you know, for everyone who's always

[00:03:39] been listening, I'm Louisiana Creole. So I spent, I'm in Ohio right now, right? It's mostly raised, but my parents, they separated. And so I had to spend like half my childhood summers in like Louisiana, like Lafayette, Monroe, and New Orleans. And so, like you said, if you're remotely from the south, you've heard of Marie Laveau. If you're in the north, maybe you have because of American horror story. But yeah, I got the bug when I got on there because I was like, how is everyone Catholic and practicing juju? But also like, it's totally okay to go to like a voodoo ceremony.

[00:04:08] And so it blew my mind. And I caught the, I mean, I went as like Marie Laveau was like, for like Halloween. And then any other time I can get away with it. So like, I was obsessed. And then became a folklore researcher when I was in grad school. And so I felt like I was working on a project for the Loa, like the voodoo gods. And of course, you just keep coming back to Marie Laveau. And I was like, I think I can do this. And at that time, I had written like several novels, got close to a book deal. And I really wanted to be a screenwriter. And so I became a screenwriter,

[00:04:38] turned the Quarter Queen into a television pilot. We started shopping and stuff. And then they were like, this is expensive. And I was like, okay, hold my beer, turn it into a book. And then like it basically, it just took off before I was even done with the book. So yeah, that's the story of the Queen. Yeah, that's so cool. And I will say like, I born and raised in California, but I've always joked like I must have been Southern in a past life. Because there are times where like,

[00:05:07] I don't know how or why but like, when I'm drunk, I have a Southern accent. And it's very weird. Literally, I don't know. There's a food, there's a food that's a hard no for you that I'm like, you cannot be Southern. And I can't remember what it is. I have no it's honey. You don't like honey. I never I've never said that I don't like honey. I thought it was you couldn't do no. I've never said that. I'm like, what do you mean?

[00:05:36] I'm gonna dig through our text messages. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, honey, I'm like, we got honey. We got so much honey. Is it both peanuts? No. I think I'm gonna find it. I'm gonna find it. I'm very confused. I thought you were gonna say grits. I was like, well, we in trouble. Yes, she probably didn't go hurt. I've had grits. I've had grits. I probably had grits with you when I was in Georgia. That's true. That is true.

[00:06:06] Actually, I'm pretty sure we did. But yeah, so yeah, Marie Laveau is like, even I, I mean, like, I don't know if it's just my weird, like I was Southern in a past life thing, or if it if she really is just like, she's so prevalent, just like in. She's like right there on those eye guys. Right there. And it's crazy that like, I feel like, you know, like this, your story of her feels like one of

[00:06:33] the first, if not the first that I've read where she's like front and center. Yeah. Um, like the story surrounds her. Yeah. So I really, it is very cool to read. Thank you. Thank you. Um, yeah. So you were definitely read some stuff. Sorry, I was like, I definitely was like, who is this? Yeah, not Miss Marie. Um, she looks like a side character in her own story. And like, yeah. Oh, that's crazy. Cause she's such a big person. A big person. Yeah.

[00:07:02] She's such a force. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah. Um, so I was gonna say you, you had mentioned that when you originally wrote the story, it was very like back and forth between Marie and Rhi. Um, and we do still get like bits and pieces of Marie's kind of the way that you read. I don't know how to say it without like spoilers kind of, but like the way that you've written it. Um, how did you come about like incorporating Marie's voice in that way?

[00:07:30] Like with the, because it does kind of feel like it's, it's, it's her voice, but it's through Rhi's perspective. If that makes sense. It does. It does. It was a weird thing. I think I came off of a draft though, where it was Marie, Rhi, Marie, Rhi. And the manager was like, you know, this is a, it always was intended to be a bit more of Rhi's story in a way, because again, I think they're like, they have this duality to them, like different sides of the same coin. Um, it's kind of like that motif of like the center and the saints, and they both kind

[00:08:00] of embody, they actually bought it like both of them at different times. And like, okay. So I, you know, I, I really thought with Marie, I have to really figure out who she is. And I knew that, of course she's a quarter queen and this is voodoo priestess, but like, we never really like, as far as I've seen, like encountered past the spectacle. So I kind of knew that I was like, she's a mother, but like before she's a mother, she has a deep mother wound. And it's all like this kind of matriarchal cycle that's embodied with her within her, which is rightful.

[00:08:27] Like speaking of voodoo, it's like kind of that way in my life. And I thought, okay, this is perfect. So I kind of knew I had to lock her down first. And then after that we were kind of okay. I can't have two Marie's running around. So Rhi, she just, I just kind of knew that she was her own brother. And like, listen, people be giving me shit for Rhi sometimes they're like, oh my God, I would never, I'm like, do you want to read a book where the character is just like you? That does everything you would do. That's crazy. Literally people get me for that. And I'm like, okay, I, you know, I can recommend other books for you.

[00:08:56] Like not to even go off. I'm like, how many times people send me DMs. I'm like, she, and by the way, I fully want to make a case for Rhi. She's a party girl with a heart of gold. Like, I think she's definitely a brat, but like, she is exactly who Marie made her to be. I'm like, if you want to take a decision, take a picture of what she's like, Rhi, anytime you lie to your kids, this is what you're going to get when you shelter them. This is who you're going to get when you protect them. I mean, yeah. And then we get further into the book. Yeah. I'm protected too. Like, what do you mean?

[00:09:24] What characters are supposed to have you going like, no, no, don't. Yeah. Don't. Yeah. Oh, she did it. Y'all feel me. Y'all feel me. Okay. Like, it would be so boring to read a book that's like, she didn't do anything. She just sat there. She did exactly what you wanted her to do. Like the plot ends there. I think it's the morality of police trying to get me. And I'm like, well, you came to the wrong book because I don't think anyone is really good or bad in this book. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay.

[00:09:52] You have like the coolest resume. You have an entire PhD in English. Um, you're a professor, an author, a screenwriter. You're a mythology expert. How did all of those things help you? Like when you were writing this story and what was your writing process like? Um, well, I always tell my students, I'm like, I'm not putting y'all through anything. I don't put myself through. They don't believe me. And I'm like, okay, when I'm writing anything, whether it's a screenplay, TV show, or a book,

[00:10:21] I give myself a syllabus. And I'm like, okay, so like, I'm very like directorial style and hopefully I'll get to direct my first movie in 2017. So I'm like gearing up for that. Um, a horror movie, but like, I will do a whole shot list for everything for the book. So quarter of me has this whole shot list. I'll do a whole playlist. Um, I just, I'm a visual learner kind of like that. So I just start there and then I read all the books that I think are remotely like nonfiction research, other fiction, just like for tonality. And then when you're feeling uninspired as can happen when you're writing a book,

[00:10:49] because it's kind of daunting, you just kind of go back into that and refresh. So I did that like a crazy person. So I was my own. I was like, I'm a teacher, but I'm also a student. And so did that a lot. And like, um, obviously flew to New Orleans and walked around. And, um, I did that when I was really trying to figure out, um, the locations and like, really figure out, okay, here's the real New Orleans here. And then like, is New Orleans a real place though? Like, I'm not even trying to be shady. It's like, it's his own thing. Cause it carries its own mythology. People are like, the demons, there's witches.

[00:11:18] I'm like, I definitely believe there are, but when like, it also like, have you guys heard of like the, um, shops that disappear? Like complete. Yes. Yes. And my friends swear. If it's not, it happened to her. So I think you were just too drunk on Bourbon street, but it's a thing. And so I really wanted to capture that, that feeling of, I don't know, like the mystique, but like take it up a notch. And, um, I think in the fantasy, you really can do that.

[00:11:44] Um, I've read, you know, quite a few books where New Orleans feels like a, I don't like a backdrop, like, but not a character. And so I wanted her to feel like a character and, um, haunting. And then again, of course, cause I'm a screenwriter. I was like, okay, we gotta think about this in terms of set pieces. And like, we're never leaving the quarter. So we have to have all these locations and we never really want to overuse them, but we want them to feel familiar. And so I'm going to like that Harry Potter kind of naming and role building. So it was really, I hope that answers it, but like that. Yeah. No, that's so cool.

[00:12:14] And New Orleans is a hard place to describe. Yes. Unless you're there, you just, unless you've been, it's just, it's different. It's different. She's different. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you really did like what you said about her being a character in and of itself. Like, yeah, like you captured that it's very atmospheric in a way that like, it's grounded in our reality, but at the same time, like it does feel a bit fantastical and all of that.

[00:12:42] Like just write, just write off, you know, off center. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just straddling that line. So I'm curious about like your writing process in and of itself. Like when you're, when you're writing, do you start out with a specific thing? Like, is it a character, the plot, like a specific scene that you see that comes to you first and then you start? Or is it like always, and is it always the same every time you write? Do you have to plot everything out first?

[00:13:11] Does it come to you as you go? All of the crazy questions. So I'm like, okay, we're gonna start. So several things, right? I'm a plotter, like big plotter, like gotta have a whole outline. But like with the understanding that an outline is a living document and it will change. Like just based on notes you get from the editor or agent or whatever. And really from the editor, because that's like your partner in crime or it should be the book. They should have a lot of input and you guys should be like going back and forth.

[00:13:39] So I feel like with Porter Queen, there was a vision Natalie had, my editor at Valentine. And then we talked about it. But we always, we're really good. Like we just start pitching each other. And I think my screenwriting training, thank God came into play. Because when you're a screenwriter, you work with producers and they have a lot to say about the writing. Like sometimes not so nice. Like I've definitely been in scenarios where they're like, no, cut that, cut that, cut that. And like, they don't give a reason why. Natalie can justify every single thing of like, why?

[00:14:07] And like give, she's like very steady. Like, I thought I was like, yeah, she was like, oh girl, this is why. I agree. I agree. So really fun partner in crime. I'm lucky to have her. I hope to work through her forever. But it's a mixture of my own ideas. And I bring them to the table. And then Natalie and I will agree basically on that. But even when she like releases me, like say we've talked about it, and I go back and still while I start writing, things can change. And ultimately it is your book.

[00:14:34] And so for me, I do a very, very, very, like my bullet points have bullet points outline. And then after that, some scenes will just come to me though, like visually. So I have like this really crazy word document that I bet no one, no archaeologist could ever decipher. It just is like, look at it and understand immediately what it means. And so I will go between that and like my outline and realize, okay, so like, I want, like, I'm just so visually driven. And like, okay, Marie's hair will be like this in this scene.

[00:15:02] And like, when I'm like, crazy, it didn't make sense to my brain. So between those two things, you get a book. It ends up making a beautiful book. Yeah. So it works. Thank you. They're like, y'all crazy, but no, listen, we are the kind of, we both write. And so like, we're both the kind of writers where literally it's like, our characters are talking to us in our heads. So it's like, not crazy at all. And you're crying and you're like, please don't do this. And they're like, this is what you have to do. This is it.

[00:15:32] This is my story. You just have to transcribe it. And it's literally, you're the vessel. You're the vessel. Okay. I know you've touched on it a little bit, but the quarter queen was originally a pilot. Yeah. Um, that you ultimately pivoted into a novel is adapting it back to film something that you could see happening. Would you want it? And would the story change any, if you did that? Most definitely. We're kind of like, I won't say we're like working on it, but totally right now.

[00:16:00] Um, for like Halloween, the ball, this whole kind of tour I'm going on. So yes, it was always supposed to be TV. Like people were approaching me like, it should be moving. I'm like, no, it should be TV. Like it literally, yeah. To me, like the best, barring a few, which is on TV. It's like, I feel like TV, you get to invest with the characters. Yeah. And when you really get the budget and production behind it, where it should be, you get an amazing story. I'm not talking about the stuff where they just crank it out. I'm like, here, damn.

[00:16:25] Um, but like, I mean, like when you get a really good producing team behind it and a really good writing team. So yeah, I would like to, you know, co-create the pilot again with the showrunner and like redo it. Cause like the pilot I have now is obsolete. The book just changed way too much, but it's like the spirit of that. And so I'd like to redo the pilot, um, and do a full season. So we have a Bible and everything and yeah, just trying to find the right showrunner. Um, but yeah, I, I would love to do the television show, like at least like four seasons. I would be amazing.

[00:16:54] I feel like also the way that you've written this book feels very like serialized television kind of thing. Like I could picture like bits and pieces where it would be like, okay, end of episode. And I'm like, wait, what? I definitely feel like the Leloon arc is definitely like mid season finale. It's like, you're like, wait, what's happening?

[00:17:24] So you touched on it, um, a little bit earlier about how, like most of the characters in this story, they all have kind of two sides to them. They have the good and the bad. There's not really, I don't know. I don't, I didn't come away with it, come away from it feeling like there was a villain of the story versus like the good guys and the bad guys kind of thing. Everybody's kind of mixed bag.

[00:17:48] What was, what was that kind of process of creating such like detailed and like deep characters, like who are flawed in many ways. And that is kind of the epitome of like the human nature, essentially. Great question. Um, like outside of the Marie's, you know, in a novel, like you really want your like secondary characters to like almost be, I won't say stronger, but like, to me, I'm always like, what are they up to?

[00:18:18] Like, what is John doing when he's not in the scene? What is Silas doing? Like, what does that get? They pop. They pop. And I'm always like, they should be haunting the narrative. And so I kind of knew like two sides, right? Like we have this kind of factional, like the church, right? Um, so we have like the witch hunter with like Henrik and then we have the brotherhoods. We have Silas. You have to have the characters kind of stand in for the faction. Um, and I think in the kind of quarter queen thematic thing, no one is what they appear to be. Like the kind of motif of like the French quarter mask.

[00:18:44] Um, I just know like a 19th century slave pulling society of just the question that's always on my mind is, can you be a good person? Um, and this kind of restrictive, oppressive commodifying society. And I think the answer quarter queen is maybe, um, but also to dismantle some of these systems, you can't actually be a good person. And so I think quarter queen critiques like what is good versus like morality versus legality, right? Like a heinous system is now as legal.

[00:19:12] So again, the society itself, I think it's topsy-turvy. And I like to say this system is the villain. Like, um, I'd say like America, America kind of is the villain. Louisiana is kind of the villain. And it's this kind of, you know, motif of like the Euroboros, like the snake. And like, when I teach American history, I've talked about some of the podcasts. Um, it is when I've taught like 19th century politics, even now, I don't know how to say

[00:19:38] it to say, but kind of, if we don't find a way to like make right some of these things, we just keep going. It's never going to end. So yeah, I felt like quarter queen, the society is forcing people in these positions and they're all trying to find their own sense of freedom. So like Game of Thrones feels like a good comp because they're fighting for the Iron Throne or whatever, but, and this, they're not doing that. They're literally fighting for the soul of New Orleans and then doing so with their own souls. Um, because who's going to come out on top? It's like, hmm.

[00:20:07] But you know, with people like John, he set up to kind of be the villain and no spoilers. The question is like the villain to who? Because like, I think the city of Norman's frames him as this kind of villain is we get to unpack that you're like, oh, he was straight up just against slavery. And like, he went straight up for longer on people. And it's like, oh, that's my always my comp. Is Killmonger. Yeah. He's not a bad guy. He got abandoned. Yeah. He got left there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's the villain to who? That's a really good way to put it is the villain to who. And it's also failed him. Yeah.

[00:20:36] And it's so timely this, this, this book, I feel like, especially in the environment that we are in right now, it's like, damn, you got me questioning a lot of things. We didn't get the lesson. Yeah. We didn't get the lesson. Right. Yeah. No, no, no. It's like we, and that's what's so great about fiction is like you get to kind of visit the real world, but like a step off. Yes. I love fantasy that does that in particular. Like we could talk about historicals, but like just a good fantasy for me.

[00:21:06] Like take the Witcher, right? The elves, you can insert indigenous peoples, black people, anyone, right? There's been oppressed or other, and you could understand like, okay, and they don't take that, you know, at a certain point, it comes down to you or me. Um, and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's also kind of upsetting to think about, like, this is a historical fantasy to think about the things that they're dealing with then are unfortunately still relevant today. And it's so upsetting.

[00:21:36] Because we're eating our tail. Yeah. We're eating the tail. We're eating the tail before we can even break out of the cycle. Yeah. So it's, you know, I think quarter queen, it also like, it's not like advertising on the surface, but like so much of it is against white supremacy. Um, and you have things like the brotherhood and it's like, they are terrifying in a way, because I don't think they say anything outright inflammatory. Um, and they themselves would say, yes. Yes.

[00:22:04] And they would say, well, we're just following the rules too. And they would just point to someone like Corbin and be like, we're just following what he said. Right. But in the meantime, they actually probably will the most power in that city above any kind of legal system because it represents like basically white fraternal institutional power, um, that has been weaponized against people of color and anybody other. Yep. For how long? Um, and they basically, they just hide behind political correctness and politeness until, and they're like, oh shit. I think I was capable of that.

[00:22:34] Um, but yeah. Yeah. Gosh. Everybody needs to go read this book. Yes. Um, okay. So we promised we wouldn't keep you forever, even though we want to. Um, but we have a few like fun questions that we always ask our guests. Okay. Um, this is where any books, movie TV, any media is going to just leave your brain. Like, have you ever seen a movie? I don't know. What are words? Okay.

[00:22:59] So we have a segment on the podcast that we call the fictional boyfriend of the week. It doesn't have to be a boyfriend. Just like Karen's had a fictional granny. I've had a fictional son. We've got fictional pets. Do you have any fictional characters that are like, you're like, this is it. This is the character everybody should know about. Like you have to learn this character. Everybody should go watch this show, read this book. Oh yeah. But I feel like people do know about him because his season is in it. I feel very strongly about Lestat.

[00:23:29] Like with a new vampire. And I'm like, that's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he's the other boyfriend now at this point. Yeah. I feel like he's. I'll play about Louis. That's how I'm. I'll play about him. I'll play about him because he can read anybody down. Down. Yeah. Yeah. One of my nieces, I can't get her to watch anything else. We're like, she hasn't seen K-pop Demon Hunters. All she's watching is Interview with a Vampire. How old is your niece? She starts at 17. Okay. She's old enough to watch it. Okay.

[00:23:59] She's like, she's like, stay up on social damage. Yeah. She won't do anything else. She just like, that's her comfort show. That's not even mine too. Like I just call him my toxic, toxic boyfriend. Yeah. I love it. It's a great choice. I'm obsessed with Anne Rice. I mean, how can I, I feel like it's terribly on brand, but it's like. You are who you are. Okay. You are who you are and we love you for it. But no, I love what's that down.

[00:24:28] That's, that's my guy. That's my guy. Better for worse. We riding this out. I love it. Okay. So the other fun question that we ask is obviously we've spent like 30 minutes praising you about how much we love this book. Like, and so we'll keep recommending that, but we'd love to know, like, what are you reading? What are you recommending? Do you have anything that you think like everybody needs to know this? I just, I'm about to be done with Runner by Ashton Lattimore. And she's also a Valentine author, but it's like this.

[00:24:58] Oh God, historical. So I don't, not quite a fantasy, but it's like black rum runners. And so fun fact, my grandmother ran rum with my great-grandfather in Louisiana, like through Georgia. And so I was like, how could I not? Like, yeah, I'm so devastated and like entertained. Love that book down. I also, my sister's a librarian. So I'm going to kind of do proxy by her. Shout out to Kiana. She recommended The Night in the Mouth. And so I just picked it up.

[00:25:27] Look at this thing gorgeous. I haven't opened it yet. I haven't even cracked it. That's a good one. I gotta read the second one. Did you guys read? She has read it. I have it on my shelf. I need to read, but like I need to start this one. And everyone keeps recommending to me. So I'm like, fine, fine. I read her. She's really good. I read her last series and I really enjoyed that. So I'm really excited to eventually start this. I just have many books to read.

[00:25:55] Do you guys ever get the thing where like, it's so, I don't know what's wrong with my brain. If too many people recommend something, I will resist it for a minute. Me, me. Okay. Yeah. I didn't read The Hunger Games until like the past year or two, like very recently. And, and everybody was like, everybody, when it came out, like you need to read this. This is every, it's so, and I was like, but if everybody likes it, then I don't, they don't, they don't need me. Right. They already have their fans. They don't need me.

[00:26:23] So I stopped bringing up series to Karen. Cause I'm like, she's eventually going to do it. Once I finally, like if I can't spook her, leave her alone. Let her sit with me. I'm like, stop pressuring me. No, I completely agree with you. 10 years later, she's going to be like, this is the best. The moment is gone. The movie is over. It just means that I get to enjoy it all in my, my comfort level. Okay. I get to have it all to myself now because y'all already had your moment.

[00:26:53] Look, we bully my, the, the interview with the vampire niece about not ever having seen K-pop demon hunters. And we're like, you're going to love it. And she's like, too many people have told me. I can't do it now. It's actually really good. It's actually really good. I love the song. I got in my head, but your niece also needs to read and watch something else because if it's just, if it's just the vampire playing up there, nightmare fuel. She does that and the rookie. Okay. Okay. She does it. It's balance. Okay.

[00:27:24] It's a hard thing. Yeah, quite. Okay. Last question. What comes next? What can we expect from Kayla Hardy in the future? So I would like Border Queen to be a trilogy. So like, I think that's pretty much like a spoiled that. So I'm really working hard to get that done and like get the TV show going. I have a short horror movie that I hope to direct. That's like the substance needs talk to me.

[00:27:52] Like I'm really excited about it. It's like the dark out with the brotherhood. And it's like, I'm going to be a movie. And it's like if people use that to kind of reverse timing and stuff. So I have my cast locked down. I hope to direct that hopefully spring 2027. So I'm just a crazy person running around. And then I have another horror movie that's like toxic mommies and witches. So that one I hope to be done with soon. That's all on the Hollywood side. And then for books, I do have, I guess I can talk about it. I think I already spoiled it on another show. Like, oh God, I think I can.

[00:28:21] I don't think they've officially said it. But yes, my next one is a vampire book set in New York. That's like basically like Dagger Mouth meets a new vampire. So like, or like Kill Bill. So like I would take someone to the vampire houses in revenge for the death of her lover and wakes an old ancient vampire to kill Bill with her. So yeah, that one is going to be fun. And it is related to Quarter Queen. That's all I can say. But yeah. Oh my God. I love it. I love it.

[00:28:50] That sounds really, really exciting. Well, we'll keep an eye out for your directorial debut. Hopefully soon, y'all. That would be so fun. We've got locked down the budget. I'm like, we're going to go around like, please, sir. I can have some more. Yeah. Well, hopefully. I told you my husband's a filmmaker. I hear those conversations every day. Like this project. It's so irritating. It irritates the whole world. It's awful out here. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:20] It's really hard in the film business right now. It is. Unless you're Netflix. Literally. You know, with endless money. Right. The indie's making a comeback. So. I feel like it is. I feel like I've heard a lot more about indies recently than in years past. If you can bring the audience now, essentially. Like, I think like Obsession and Backrooms really like solidified that. I'm not. It's not to say a spec script won't sell. Because we just saw like what three sell for like in the seven figures.

[00:29:49] My agent's like. Where? But I thought. Where are you at with your next movie, Kayla? Come on. I'm trying to smell the quarter queen. But yeah, spec styles still happen. But they've got to like knock people's socks off. Right. Did y'all see that? Was it the one movie? I think it was a movie. It's like a hundred. You see like hundreds of pages. It's like a novel basically. And they like cheated kind of like. And this is what I said. You can break any rule in Hollywood as long as the material is good. I think they had to submit it to like a TV competition.

[00:30:18] And they had to like make it seem like it was like a pilot episode. Like pilot and like other episodes. And it was really, I think, a film. And that just sold for like a million dollars. So. Oh, wow. I mean, it was like entirely too long. I'm probably butchering this. But I think it was a feature. And I think it was like, you know, like you cap it like what? 100 pages now for a feature. I was like, that's some bullshit. Because it was like a hundred and a hundred pages. So yeah, you can break any rule you want. That's good. That's so good. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

[00:30:47] That is true. Well, hopefully we've convinced many people here today to go and pick up a copy of The Quarter Queen, which is out now. It's so good. And then we'll get. Oh, I love it. I love it so much. I've been booked towards some of these cookies, which I've been like trying to eat and like mess up my diet. I love it. This has been so much fun. And so like enlightening, honestly. Like, I love it. Thank you so much for being here, Kayla. We really appreciate it.

[00:31:17] It's been so fun. Karen and Mandy, you guys are the best. Have fun. Have fun. Oh, we actually haven't told you the bad news yet. Oh, yeah. Actually, we have a little bit of bad news. It's actually now that you've been on the podcast, you're actually legally obligated to come back for all future releases. Books or TV. So sorry. Books or film. All of it. Yeah. We're going to have to have like a post episode recap of every episode. Yeah. Yeah. Once the show happens, we'll.

[00:31:47] Listen. Listen. I'm happy to get y'all involved in production. Like you're like to have like the talking dead. I'm like, yes. I'll do something. Yes. Oh, we would talk. And make them pay y'all. Make them pay y'all. We'll do it. Nothing for free. We're here. We're here. Sign us up. Maybe they'll be like, you don't do nothing for free. Sign us up. We'll be there. We'll be there. We're ready. Oh my goodness. Thank you guys. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So whenever, whenever that happens, we'll see you again. Yeah. Where are you guys based? Are you both in LA? He's in Georgia. I'm in California.

[00:32:17] I'm in like Northern California, the Bay Area. And I'm in Macon, Georgia. Center of the state. We'll make it work. We'll make it work. We'll meet in Oklahoma or something. Yeah, I'm in Oklahoma. I'm like trying to figure out where is this. Okay. Oklahoma. Oh, geography is not my strong student. I'm like, I don't know where anything is. Hey. But whatever it is, we'll make it work because we love it. Oh my goodness. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. So much. We will talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye.

[00:32:47] I love her. She's so pretty. I know. She's so beautiful. No. And I love her. Like the vibes were so good. I loved everything. Now I have to go find what you were gaslighting me about. There's something and I'm going to find it. And I'm going to tell you. I'll be happy for you to tell me what it is because I can't think of anything. It had me clutching my Southern pearls. I, I, I, I could not tell you.

[00:33:15] I, I literally have no idea. In good fun. We'll figure it out. I'm sure. I, if there is, I believe you. I believe that you have, you, I've said something that made you clutch your pearls. I want to go to New Orleans now, especially going into like October. It's spooky season. Almost. The only time I've been to New Orleans, it was the middle of August and it was hot as fuck. And I thought I was going to die. I want to say I went, it was like January or February.

[00:33:44] I went and we like, we got off work on a Friday, literally. And Josh was like, let's go to New Orleans for the weekend. And we drove like a nine, 10 hour drive. And we drove straight there. I've been close. Like she mentioned that she stops in, or she grew up some in Lafayette. I was just there this year. Right. A ghost thing, but we didn't go to New Orleans. Well, I guess we're going to have to make a trip. Yeah. As a group, a group trip. I'm happy to do it. Yeah.

[00:34:20] That sound means we have another intruder alert. We're so excited. We've got a repeat offender this time. Yes, we do. Ellen O'Clover is back. We're talking about If Not You this time. Yay. Hello, hello. This cover, I can't get over it. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming back. We're so excited. Thank you for having me twice. I'm thrilled to be back chatting with my friends at Incoherent Fangirl. Yay. Yay. All right.

[00:34:46] You know, we always start off with the hardest question, which is, can you give us the elevator pitch of the book? Absolutely. So If Not You is a rivals to lovers romance between two copywriters with years of contentious history between them who get stuck together on a month-long work trip as their rival ad agencies go head-to-head competing on a career-defining pitch for a luxury resort brand. You're so good at the pitch. I mean, yeah.

[00:35:15] I've practiced a few times, a time or two. So what made you want to write a story about rival copywriters? And like, so where did it come from? Like, where did this idea? I knew I wanted to write a rivals to lovers story. And I really liked the idea of writing about creative people because I think that there's something super interesting in exploring the parts of ourself that wind up in our art and in our creative expression.

[00:35:41] And I wanted, so I wanted to explore that, but there are so many existing wonderful stories, especially romances about fiction writers and journalists. And so I was like, what's another kind of writing that I could explore here? And I have been a copywriter myself for a decade. And so I was like, why don't I just put this in a world that I know? And I'll write about two copywriters in the ad world. And there's some like mad men and juju in here and some hating game energy. And it was really fun to put those two worlds together.

[00:36:11] Oh, I love it. It's so fun. And it's also like you very cleverly, like there's, I don't want to say it's a mystery around it, but like the title of the book plays a big part of the story. It's very meaningful in the story. And I love the way that you were able to kind of build it up in a way where the reveal is like, right in the gut. Thank you.

[00:36:38] Like how, was that something that you knew like from the get-go when you were starting to write this story? Or did you have like an aha moment? Like, oh, this would be so good. I'm trying to figure out how to talk about this without like spoiling it. I knew that there was going to be a reveal like the reveal that's in the book, but I did not know that it would be related to the title of the book.

[00:37:04] When I sold this idea, the book was called The Pitch because Maddie and Campbell are traveling for a pitch and I didn't have the creative energy to come up with the title at the time. And when I sold it, my editor was like, great, love this idea, but it needs a new name. So think about that when you're writing it. And as I was writing, the name came to me as I was, you know, kind of unspooling the plot. And so I think If Not You is sort of a, not like a tongue twister, but you kind of want

[00:37:33] to say if not for you or something. Like it doesn't feel like it's quite a complete sentence. And that's because it is the name of something in the book, which you will find out as you read. So, yeah. You did a fantastic job of making Campbell so freaking hateable. I have worked with so many Campbells in the past that had no redeeming qualities at all. And so for the first half of the book, I'm just like, I was listening to the audio book

[00:38:02] while I was driving to Orlando earlier this week and I was just like, oh, picturing all of these men who just get everything handed to them while you're doing double, you know, what they do. And so when you're writing, how do you balance that fine line of like, this guy is the actual worst to, okay, actually he's really not. This was all just, you know, appearances and wrong, you know, impressions.

[00:38:32] Thank you. First of all, I take it as a compliment when I hear from readers that they were unconvinced by Campbell at the beginning because this book is in Maddie's POV and she's unconvinced by Campbell at the beginning. You know, I think that I like arrivals to lovers where you really believe it. Like, you know, you're like just as annoyed with the other person. You feel just as competitive with them as the main character does.

[00:38:57] And so I knew when I set out to write this, that I wanted these two to be actually a little mean to each other. Sometimes I wanted them to really push on each other's bruises. I wanted them to, you know, have teeth in this book, like for it to really feel like a long journey from rivals to lovers. And so part of that, because this is in Maddie's POV and she starts out the book, just really hating Campbell's guts was he had to feel hateable.

[00:39:28] He couldn't just be slightly irritating and really handsome, you know? Not true. So he's really irritating and really handsome. No half measures for Campbell. No half measures for Campbell. But I think like, you know, I hear from a lot of readers that they really wish they had Campbell's perspective in this book. And I think that that's because my guess is that that's because at a certain point you realize that Maddie's got him all wrong.

[00:39:55] And so you're like hungry to go back and see the first part of the book. Yeah, because you find out that like this whole time, actually, he's been not only obsessed with her, like he has been actually a very tender and sweet person. It's just like under this facade of his own coping mechanism, which is to be loud, class clown, like kind of cocky. You know, when she meets Campbell, he's very young.

[00:40:24] They're both they're 20, 22, 23. He hasn't matured into himself yet at the very beginning. Yeah. Frontal lobe's not developed. Yes. At the end of the story. Well, for most of the story in the present tense, he's 28. So he's, you know, he's figured it out a little more. Yeah. But at the beginning, he's really just like a pain in the ass. He's a pain in Maddie's ass. As the reader, you're like, this guy's a pain in the ass. But, you know, I'm hopeful that as Maddie feels that turn, readers will really feel

[00:40:50] that turn, too, with figuring out who Campbell actually is under all those onion layers of his defense mechanisms. Very begrudgingly. I was like, I'm not going to fall for this one. I'm not going to do it. And then I did. And it was like, oh, she got me. I got a, in one of my trade reviews, I think it was Kirkus was like, I can't remember exactly how they phrased it, but they were like, you know, Maddie and Campbell are so mean to each other that you think it's never going to work out. But like somehow O'Clover pulls it off. You know?

[00:41:19] It's that, it's that new girl like meme, right? Like stop being so mean to me or I'm going to fall in love with you. Exactly. And it's exactly what happens. And it's funny, like you bring up that the book is told fully from Maddie's POV. We don't get any of Campbell. But as like an avid romance reader, like we are, we there's this expectation, right? That it's like, oh, it's always been her for him.

[00:41:45] But the way that you've written it, like once you get to that point where Maddie makes that turn, that's when you start to feel, you don't feel it from the beginning. Like it's so, even in other books where it's like single POV, where you don't feel that like it's always been her, like it still is there. So I really liked the way that you did it because it was just like, wait, but like, has it always been her? But it has. Thank you.

[00:42:14] But I mean, like I wanted it to feel like a real surprise to Maddie when she finds this out. And it wouldn't feel that way if the whole time the reader is like, he's clearly so in love with her, you know? And I think like part of what Campbell and Maddie, like what Campbell loves about Maddie is sparring with her and like pushing her buttons. Like it's part of this game that's like really hot to him. So he's not going to be super sweet to her. He's like, you know, that's the fun of it for him. Yeah. It's it's yeah.

[00:42:44] And I feel like it's such a fun way that you've done it. Like it kind of subverts that like idea of like, you know, in a lot of romances is like, yeah, they're mean to each other. But you always know, like he's always it's always been her. But I didn't get that even though I wanted it. And I was like, anyways, my whole point of this is the question was really like, what was kind of was there a conscious thought behind choosing to write only in Maddie's

[00:43:13] POV and not including Campbell's? And how did you kind of get to that point? Because I feel like a lot of romances we do get a lot of back and forth. It was definitely intentional. I love writing a single POV romance. I think that it's the closest you can get in fiction to what it actually feels like to fall in love, because when you're going through that yourself, you don't get to know what the other person's thinking. And that's the whole angst of it. That's true.

[00:43:39] And, you know, in this book specifically, if we had Campbell's POV from the beginning, like, where would the tension come from? You know, so much of like what's drawing you through the first half is there. This competition that Maddie feels so intensely of like needing to beat this guy. And it's like. As you slowly start to realize there's more to Campbell than you thought, I think that's

[00:44:04] a lot of what propels the reader through the story is like, oh, I want to see what's actually going on here, because I'm starting to feel like I don't trust Maddie as the narrator and who's telling me who this person is. And so if you knew from the beginning who Campbell was, I feel like a lot of that tension would dissolve. And I think it's a really propulsive force in a story like this. That's a really good point. Good point. Yeah.

[00:44:30] Another thing I think that it was kind of a smaller plot, but still so important. Maddie has a really difficult relationship with her parents, but especially with her mother. And it's so very real world for so many people. And there's never repair. There's never. I didn't mean any of that. I love you, my precious baby. You're the best thing that ever happened to me. Was that's also very real world, though. Was that a conscious decision you made to show that not all conflict or all difficult

[00:44:58] relationships are going to be tied up in this perfect little bow? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I think that at some point in the story, Maddie says, there's no there there in my relationship with my parents. And she has for so long pushed herself to achieve things because she thinks it will make her worthy in their eyes and in her own eyes. And, you know, has to come to the realization that, like, she's worthy as she is. And her parents inability to connect with her the way that she dreams that they could is not.

[00:45:28] First of all, her fault and also not something that she can change. And I think that that's a tough truth that a lot of people have to come to about relationships in their lives that, like, the people that we love aren't always capable of loving us in the way that we want to be loved. And we can't beat ourselves into the ground to get the kind of love that we want. It's not going to work. And we can find that love in other people and be loved the kind of way that we want in other relationships.

[00:45:57] But sometimes the healthiest thing we can do is accept the shortcomings of the people in our lives and not feel like it's our fault that they can't give us what we would really like to have from them. Yeah. True. And I think that was wonderful. Yeah. No, it was it was really lovely to see. Like, like she said, it's a very real world. Very like you. Nothing gets wrapped up in a neat bow like that in real life. But on the flip side of that, you also have Ava, who her relationship with Maddie is, I

[00:46:26] feel like, so special and kind of not necessarily propels her forward as the story goes on. But it is it's a grounding point for her. And I would love to hear about kind of the development of their relation, because I feel like their relationship also is a big point of this story. It's not just the romance between Maddie and Campbell, but also the sister bond between Ava and Maddie. Yeah.

[00:46:56] Ava and Maddie's platonic love story was really as important to me in writing this as Maddie and Campbell's romantic love story. You know, Maddie had such a tough childhood with her parents who was pretty absent. And Ava is her best friend from childhood. And really, that's her family. You know, she grew up at Ava's house with Ava's siblings. And then they went to college together. And now they've moved to Chicago and live together in an apartment. And Ava is really the most important person in Maddie's life.

[00:47:22] And Maddie finds herself at this really scary moment where Ava is about to get married and move out and start a new chapter of her own life. And Maddie feels like she's about to get left behind. And she not only feels so scared, but also feels so ashamed that she feels that way because she loves Ava more than anyone on earth. And she's so happy for her. And so she's like, am I an evil hag? Because I'm feeling selfishly that I'm upset about this. And so she's sort of like shoved down all those feelings because she's too scared to look at them.

[00:47:52] She's too scared to admit to them. And, you know, to her horror, it's Campbell who helps her work through those feelings. Campbell, who's the first person to say to her, like, I think what you're feeling is grief. Like your life is about to change. It's OK to be sad when things change. Like, you know, and Maddie doesn't accept that at first. And she has to learn that, like, our friends can't be good friends to us if they don't know what we're going through. Right.

[00:48:21] You don't tell somebody. Yeah. And like, you know, Ava is also going through it. And I think that's part of what Maddie has to learn is like just because Ava is moving into some milestone that Maddie isn't sure she's ever going to be in or even wants. It doesn't mean that Ava is just like everything's peachy keen. Like Ava's scared, too, because Ava's whole life is about to change. Ava has also lived with Maddie for the last decade or whatever.

[00:48:47] So I really wanted to write about that because I think that it is a very sticky, shaky, shameful feeling to be in your late 20s, early 30s and feel like you're falling behind the milestones that your friends are having while you're also so happy for them. You know, it's like especially when you grow up with someone and you've been friends for your whole lives for a long time. You're going through the same things at the same time. You're in the same grade at school and then you're getting your first job. And like all. Yeah.

[00:49:18] All of a sudden, there's no normal anymore and people are doing things at different times. And that's normal and good and healthy and also really hard. And I've already heard from, you know, this book's not out yet, but I've already heard from multiple readers telling me that they felt very like seen by this particular plot point and that they have had these feelings and felt embarrassed by them and that it was a relief to see this represented, which is like the greatest compliment, I think.

[00:49:45] And I'm so glad because I hope that we can all tell our best friend, I'm scared of losing you. I'm so happy and I'm scared of losing you. And sometimes like protecting them by not telling them is more harmful than just saying like, it's not your fault. You're getting married. That's wonderful. But I love you and I don't want to lose you in the process. And I'm scared of that. And that's okay.

[00:50:09] And you write such a, there's such a great line nearer the end parts of the book where Lev says something or like Ava's relaying something that Lev says to Maddie. And it's like, I don't think it's necessarily a spoiler, but like you guys are both overcorrecting. Like you're trying to spare them so much that it's making things bad. Yes. And love is Ava's fiance. Yeah.

[00:50:36] And he said, yeah, something like you guys are overcorrecting with like how much you care about each other. And now you can't even see each other clearly anymore because you're just not telling each other the truth. And that, what kind of a friendship is that? That too. Like the, the relationship between not just Lev and Ava, but Lev and Maddie even is so special too. Because like, yeah, that's, it's her best friend's fiance, but like the way that he also takes care of her in a way. Yeah.

[00:51:06] So good. Thank you. I was like, oh. Thank you. My best friend in the whole world is a single woman and my husband and I love her so much. And like the three of us, like the three of us being together is like, you know, those are the best times of my life. And so I just, I feel like like our little triumvirate, we have this very special relationship and I think about how much my husband cares about her. And like a lot of that, I think went into this, you know, this feeling that Lev has for Maddie where he's like, he doesn't want her to feel abandoned.

[00:51:34] He cares about her too because Ava cares about her so much and he loves Ava. Yes. And I think it hits very hard. I'm the single one of my friends. Like, so, you know, Mandy's husband, it's when it's three of us or like one of my other friends, her, their oldest daughter, their only daughter, the oldest daughter, their only daughter, jokes like we are Christina, Meredith and Derek from Grey's Anatomy.

[00:51:59] It's like, yeah, like when I'm over there visiting, I'm in the bed and hey, like we're going, we're all going to bed together, guys. So it's very much like, but that was such a special thing to see for me personally, because it was like, I'm like, oh, this is all of my relationships because my friends are all married. I'm the single one. But they love you so much and there's room in those relationships for you. You know what I mean?

[00:52:25] Like, love takes all these different forms and Maddie is like so convinced that, you know, one thing necessarily means another. And that's just not true. Like humans are messy. We are capable of so many different things. Complicated. Yes. And I think that was like the most, that was one of, for me personally, one of the most special things was seeing the way that love loves Maddie because he loves Ava. And it was just chef's guest. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

[00:52:55] We have our, we always ask these questions. So first one, we have a segment called fictional boyfriend of the week where we pick a fictional boyfriend for that week. It doesn't have to be a boyfriend. Karen's had a fictional granny. I've had a fictional son. We've had fictional pets. Are there any fictional characters in movie TV or books where you're like, I've never seen a book. I've never, I've never picked up a book in my life. Have I ever seen a movie? Who are characters?

[00:53:22] Are there any characters that you're like, everybody should know who this is? Hmm. Well, I just finished reading Hawk and Sparrow by Ayanna Gray, which was incredible. And the book boyfriend in that one is really great. His name is Maximilian and he is a sorcerer, tall, dark, and handsome, very wealthy, lives in a beautiful gilded age mansion. So I wouldn't be opposed to that. I'm going to have to read that because that's like my ideal setting.

[00:53:50] I think I literally have a copy here at my house for you, Mandy. It's very good. Yeah. I think I got a copy from somewhere. You're probably like gilded age. I'm like done. Gilded age home. I think I have it. But yes, that's a good one. And that actually kind of leads perfectly into the next question that we always ask is like, obviously we have professed our love for your books already and we'll continue recommending them. But we would love to know like, what are you reading? What are you recommending?

[00:54:18] Is there anything new that you're like, you guys, this one here, have it. Pick this up. Yeah. Well, Julie Olivia's newest Love Felt Like This came out last week and or maybe no, came out this week, came on a Tuesday, I think. And that one is exceptional. Julie's writing is just like the warmest hug. You know, you just feel so held by her books and we could all use that right now. So I loved that one.

[00:54:45] And I will be actually talking about it with her next week at Novel Neighbor on Tuesday, September 15th. So I can't wait for that. Oh, cool. I also recently read and this is a few months out, but put it on your radar. I just read Claire Gilmore's new one that's coming out in April. It's called Deeper Tides and it was fantastic. It's I we were. Claire and I were joking that we feel like Campbell and the main character, the guy in that book are like cousins because it also takes place on like the North Carolina coast and there are just like a lot.

[00:55:14] It's a rivals to lovers. It's got hotels in it. It's like a very it's like a close sibling of this book in a very fun way. And I just loved it. So that's so cool. Oh, that's fun. I love a Claire Gilmore book. She's the best. Yeah. Amazing. OK, last question. What comes next for Ellen O'Clover? What can we expect? So I have another contemporary romance coming out in 2027. I think it'll be September, but not quite sure yet. It is called No Wilder Thing.

[00:55:43] It's a dual timeline, second chance romance. And there's actually a preview of it at the end of If Not You. So there are a couple chapters at the end of the finished copies. If you want to get a little preview. I did the audio book. I'm like, hold on. We both listen to the audio. We might have to log out early because we got some stuff to read. We're both out here. No, that's so exciting. Thank you. That'll be a good.

[00:56:10] I love a second chance romance. It's like one of my favorite tropes ever. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And this was my first time writing true dual timeline. Like, If Not You has flashbacks, but No Wilder Thing is every other chapter. Like genuinely dual timeline covering 16 years. And it was really hard to write. But also, I love it. Like, I'm so in love with it. And I can't wait to talk more about it soon.

[00:56:37] Well, this is the perfect time to remind you that you are actually legally obligated to come back for future book releases. I can't wait. We can't wait to talk about it. Yeah. In the meantime, this episode is airing after pep day. So everybody can go walk into the bookstore. Pick up If Not You. Go get it. This cover is perfect. Beautiful. Amazing. I love it. And the story inside matches the vibe perfectly.

[00:57:06] So go pick up a copy. You can walk into your favorite bookstore and pick it up right now. Everybody go. Go get it. Go do it. Thank you so much, Ellen, for coming back. It's always such a fun time talking to you. Thank you for having me. This was lovely. We'll see you next year. Can't wait. Bye. I love her so much. I'm always so excited to see her. It's such a good time.

[00:57:34] And she always has such like thoughtful answers. And she's so pretty, too. She's so pretty. So pretty. I love her. That was so much fun. Yay. Oh, what a powerhouse episode. I know. My gosh. I love powerful woman. Yes. And so much freaking beauty in this episode. I mean. I know. I know. Here I am. I'm out here sweating. I just came back from a pool. I'm sweating through everything right now. You're beautiful.

[00:58:04] It's got you're beautiful. You're beautiful, too. All right. All right. Let's do an empty handed spiel. Right. Hold on. I'm going to pull up. We don't have it. I don't have it on me, but I can open a thing on my phone. Hold on. I can do it. What is the name? We only don't know the name because we pivoted. Yes. We changed. Pivoted. We changed. With the same author. Last second.

[00:58:33] With the same author. But okay. I'm really excited because I feel like I've spoken to this person many a time in person and somehow we've never had him on the podcast. So I'm so excited. Next week we are going to be talking to Anne Liang about To Dream in Darkness. Yay! Her next. I think it's historical fantasy. So I'm very excited. She is so much fun. I can't wait. I literally read everything she's ever written.

[00:59:03] So I'm so excited. It's going to be such a good time. Yay! Okay. And now I believe... Let's do a little spiel. Time for a spiel. I'm going to actually look at my notes this time instead of wandering eyes like a lunatic. All right. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, follow, and subscribe wherever you're listening to us. Follow us on social media at TheIncoherentFangirl on all the things. Visit our website, TheIncoherentFangirl.com, where you can also stream all of our episodes as well as read our blog.

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[01:00:56] You can buy standalone boxes like the 12 Days of Book Club Month or you can read a story I wrote. We're going to get some standalone goodies, but you can use code karen10 and get 10% off. But if you don't spell karen right, I don't know what we're going to do to you. We're going to make you work with a real Campbell who's got no redeeming qualities at all. And every promotion you deserve, he's going to get because he's a white man. Yep.

[01:01:27] Yeah. Just spell my name right. It's fine. Just spell karen right. Get that promotion, girl. Do it. And then you're going to visit our friend Amber Dean Lewis at amberdeenlewis.com. Add 10, 10, sounds like a good number, 10 of everything to your cart. Then use code fangirl10 and you'll get 10% off the 10 of everything, which mathematically, I'm pretty sure, means you get one of everything for free. I'm a mathematician and I approve this message. See? I'm not a mathematician.

[01:01:56] I'm so smart. I'm not a mathematician at all. We're absolutely correct. Don't trust me with numbers. We're so correct. And last but not least, you can support my family. You can follow the show husband. He's at Born of Josh on all the things. You can follow at Searchers Believe. That's his paranormal investigation group. You can go to searchersbelieve.com slash shop and get some more merch designed by moi.

[01:02:23] And you can get tickets to a ghost hunting event we have in Savannah in, I was going to say February. That is not true. In November. I will not be ghost hunting, but I will be there until the ghost hunting starts. You can use code fangirl10 to get 10% off. And then there's the big one. Follow at Stream Beacon TV on all the things. That is our paranormal horror true crime streaming platform. Basically, the Netflix of the spooky world.

[01:02:52] If you can go engage with all the social media stuff, that would be great because that's me. So we need to show these guys. But she's great and is doing a wonderful job. And you can subscribe to Beacon TV by going to streambeacontv.com. And using code fangirl10 will get you 10% off. And it's already cheap. So you can make it even cheaper. Exactly. And then I didn't bring a copy, but Karen has one. I wrote a book. It's called The Living and the Dead.

[01:03:22] It's about a girl who was born in a ghost, but ages like the living and the reaper who would die to get her to look at him. Just a little peek. Just a little quiet. Just one. Just out of the corner of her eye either. See me. So I'm on all the major retailers' websites. But if you'd like a signed copy, you can go to my website, aepervis.com. And use code Erin Warner to get 10% off. Because it would not be me if I didn't make something about Erin Warner. No. That's my man. My man.

[01:03:52] And that was The Geek O'Hare, The Geek O'Hare, The Geek O'Hare. Thanks for listening. We love you. We love you. Bye. Bye. Bye. We are sponsored by our friends at Here Comes the Nerd. Pins, stickers, magnets, and more. Here Comes the Nerd has happy art for all fandom-loving hearts. New customers can use coupon code FANGIRL during checkout for 20% off their first order at herecomesthenerd.com. Coupon applies to ready-to-ship items only.