I’ve Never Written Such a Pathetic Man (Affectionate)

[00:00:03] Welcome to The Incoherent Fangirl, where we are back from our break for a mid-break interview. And through the magic of editing, we're going to change clothes in a minute. And then we'll be back. I'm Karin. And I'm Mandy. And welcome to a very special episode of The Incoherent Fangirl. It's a mini-sode. It's a baby. It's just a little baby.

[00:00:32] And it's going to be so much fun. And we're so excited for y'all to listen. So without further ado, sound means we have an intruder alert. You guys, I've been fangirling about this intruder. Like, I feel like Mrs. Nash's Ashes was like forever ago. Yeah. So we're so excited. We have Sarah Adler here. Today we're going to talk about Finders Keepers. I'm so excited.

[00:01:02] My Kindle is dead. Because I did not know that I record a podcast every Thursday. Yes. Very, very silly. It snuck up on you. News to me. Welcome, Sarah. Thank you so much for being here. So the first thing we usually ask is if you could give us like an elevator pitch of the book for anybody who hasn't heard of it. Sure. With the caveat that I haven't done this a lot for this one yet. So this might not be very good.

[00:01:26] So Finders Keepers is my estranged childhood best friends to enemies to lovers treasure hunt rom-com. And it is basically about two 30 somethings who have kind of hit rock bottom in their personal and professional lives and find themselves living next to each other again as adults after 17 years of silence between them.

[00:01:52] And they decide to resume the hunt for the local treasure that tore them apart as teenagers. And as in all my books chaos ensues. The best kind of chaos. I love it so much. Is it it's the Goonies meets like Outer Banks, but everybody's all grown up like it's in the best way. Like where did this come from? Where did this story come from? Um, so a couple different places.

[00:02:21] Um, when we first moved into our house, we live in a townhouse and there's like a little boy next door and I have a daughter. And I was just like, Oh, that would be like so cute if they like croak and date, which that was like a weird thought. I don't know. She was like two at the time. Um, but it was just kind of like nice to have kids in the neighborhood thing.

[00:02:38] Um, but I did start to think about like the friends I had as a kid and like what it was like to like play with neighborhood kids and like how that was like kind of a special friendship and how if I had had like a boy in my neighborhood when I was around that age, like, I don't know, like if I could have gotten through that without having a crush. Cause like I thought I needed a crush on everyone. Um, and so there was like that part of it.

[00:03:03] And then Nina and Quentin started out as characters in a different idea I had where they were still living next to each other again after a long time, but it was like they were going to resume a prank war. And my agent was like, that's very cute, but like, let's table that idea. It's not quite it yet. Um, and so eventually when we were brainstorming for book three, um, I was like, I'm thinking of something where it's like maybe a treasure hunt sort of thing.

[00:03:31] And, uh, and she was like, I really like that. Keep going. And, um, I remember these two characters that I had kind of abandoned, but loved and was like, wait a second, I can finally like bring them back in and do something with Nina and Quentin. And, um, the sort of like analog of my, you know, town that I've created. And, um, yeah, so it was kind of just like a right time, right place. Finally, all the puzzle pieces connected to each other and it worked out.

[00:04:02] Oh my gosh. I love that. That is so fun. Um, Nina might just be like one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite character of like all time. Um, she feels like so much. I feel like I see so much of myself in her. Um, and I just, I love her so much. So this is kind of like a two part question. Um, how did you go about kind of creating her character?

[00:04:30] And how much of it did you get from my teenage diaries? Because that's really what it feels like. Um, yeah, I mean, so, uh, I have been dealing with anxiety for most of my life, depression and anxiety. Um, but especially the anxiety as an adult. And, um, there is kind of like another universe where I became a professor instead of, uh, finishing my master's and then not doing anything else.

[00:04:58] Um, and so it was pretty easy for me to kind of put myself in the headspace. I think I would have been in if I had wound up in that situation. Um, anxious people are really drawn to academia. I think it's like. It's so real. Yeah. Constant feedback. Um, your self-worth is like very, like kind of wrapped up in your work. And, um, it's kind of easy to get that like dopamine boost. It's not on like publishing quite honestly. You have to hold this mirror up. Right.

[00:05:28] A lot of academics also wind up in publishing when they leave academia or, um, I know a few people who do both. But yeah, I think it was like very much kind of an alternate universe. Me, uh, if you know, my anxiety was mostly under control, but I was also in this like really cutthroat toxic kind of unfair environment that universities often are. Um, I, I think I didn't know it at the time, but I was venting a lot of frustration, uh, towards the academy.

[00:05:58] I think. That's fair. I mean. Fair. Yeah. I mean, that's what we do as writers, right? We. That's how we work out our own problems. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so Quentin leaves a glamorous job in France to come back to America. And I could not, I could not relate any less if I tried. Cause you could not pull me back here for a thing.

[00:06:26] Um, so what's the writing process like for the situation of like, you have this. Cool. Good thing going, but it's not the right. Good. So we're going to turn your world upside down to get you to your right. Good. I mean, to be fair, it wasn't really that he just up and left. It was. It was forced to leave. Screaming. It was more of a like, okay, well, under these circumstances, you no longer work here.

[00:06:52] And then, you know, under those circumstances, you no longer have a visa to stay in France. And therefore you must leave. Please let me stay. Let me stay. Okay. So yeah. I mean, also you gotta remember, I was writing this in a different time. Fair. So there was still a lot of life in my heart. And, um, it wasn't as like absurd, uh, that somebody would choose to come back to the United States necessarily from abroad.

[00:07:19] And, um, yeah, I mean, I, it's funny because when I first started writing, I really had trouble being mean to my characters. Like I could not do it. It hurt me too much. And now I'm just like, yeah, you have lost your boyfriend and your job and your apartment and you have lost your fiancee and your job and your, and your like place in France. And you are now very sad and alone and not sure what's going to like. Like, and that didn't hurt me at all. It was more like I'm going to use you for my own devices now.

[00:07:48] Um, and so that's been fun to see how I've grown as a writer. I've gotten more sadistic. I love that so much. Oh God. I'm so scared for book four. Book four. Oh no. Um, I will say I've never written such a pathetic man. He, but like parentheses, no, we love it. We love it.

[00:08:16] Um, he, he is going through it and he's really struggling. Uh, but in my editor says he's endearing and I happen to agree. So yeah. Um, book four. I think people are going to like it. Um, he's much drier than Quentin, much drier wit, lots of sarcasm. You're writing it for me. I love like the dry sense of humor, kind of sarcastic, but I like yearning. Pining is my favorite.

[00:08:45] Like I want like, yes, no, I want you to be pathetic. Please love it. Um, okay. So, um, I would like to know, this is just very selfishly. Um, is there, is there a recipe for this banana bread with the cookie butter swirl? Because I would like to have it. Um, yes. I've never made it myself because it involves too many steps and I'm too lazy right now to be doing that.

[00:09:12] Um, but it's actually, um, I, there, there was a bakery in my town owned by a woman from England named Liz. Shout out to Liz. Um, if she happens to be listening to this, um, and she made her banana bread that way and it was the best banana bread. It was my favorite, my daughter's favorite banana bread. Um, sadly she had to move back to England. So I don't know if they're still making, somebody bought the bakery. I don't know if they're still using her recipe, but I did look it up and there are recipes for

[00:09:41] it online that do seem to be the way she did it. Um, so yeah, if you pretty much. Literally the moment, the moment that came up, I was like, I need to know, like, I need to know if there's a specific recipe I need to look out for because that sounds amazing. Yeah. That has like really nothing to do with the whole entirety of the book, but I was like, Oh my God. No, no, no. It definitely was like a shout out to her. Cause originally it was like banana bread with chocolate chips. And then I was like, no, no, no. Banana bread with the cookie butter swirl.

[00:10:11] Shout out to Liz. I still like message with her sometimes. Um, and I'm like, please, can you mail from, can you mail me? Oh, I love. I'll make sure that I don't have to actually make this. Oh my gosh. Oh, sorry. That is really special. That was very, very, very selfishly. I just really wanted to. We always like to, we always joke that like, if there's a notable like food item in the book, we almost need a trigger warning.

[00:10:40] So we know to have that food. Right. Cause it's like you get hangry when you're like hearing it, reading it described. You're like. God damn it. I want this. Yeah. I was, I think one of the coolest things ever was when somebody actually made some of the recipe, like made some of the foods from Jose Napoleon is in Mrs. Nash. Like somebody actually like made the, the cilantro focaccia with the like go to Gallo bruschetta

[00:11:10] and like, like tagged me in the video. And I was just like, Oh my God. That is so cool. My goodness. They said it was good. I'm glad to know. Cause I just like completely made those things up and I was like, I think it sounds good. I love that. I have to do that now because I did that with our friend Robbie couch wrote a book and he had like blue brownies in it. And he sent out a, like he gave a recipe as like a pre-order incentive or whatever. And I like made a video and made them.

[00:11:40] They were so good. That's like a cool series that, that someone could do on tech talk is like, I'm going to make recipes from books that I love. Yeah. That would be really fun. Really cool. Yeah. Cause like Lindsay hammer off sent out a blueberry pancake recipe with her debut. Yes. Uh, till there was you. Yes. I don't know. I like both of her books. I think that's. I can't remember. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I still.

[00:12:11] So like. On the cover and they're standing on them. And I was, I'm like, I want pancakes that large. Like a trampoline. Oh man, that would be awesome. And then there's like a moat of syrup in case you fall and I'll protect you and also maybe kill you. Cause actually I think you can. That is so. You know what? I die happy. I die happy.

[00:12:38] So when you're not throwing out these, um, food items that are making us hangry, what is your writing process? Like, are you like a plotter pants or a plants or. I guess I'm a plants or a slash. I like the term Capri pantser. Um, or, um, I think, I think Ellie Hazelwood once called it a panty liner. Um, but like I, it's, it's one of those things where as I've done this more and more, um, the process has changed a lot for each book.

[00:13:08] And I think some of that is just what's required from my publisher. Like I, you, usually I can't just give them an idea and they trust me on it, which I think that's because that's what they did with happy medium. And then they were like, okay, that was a little weird. Maybe we should like, um, but I do have to like write out a synopsis in order to sell a book. Um, and so I've gotten kind of used to having to do that and I'm less resistant to it than I used to be.

[00:13:37] Um, a lot of times I will just do what I call like a stream of consciousness outline or a loose outline where I kind of describe each chapter that I'm thinking of in stream of consciousness. Do not care if it makes sense. Not complete sentences. We'll switch between like third and first person. And mostly it's dialogue that I'm know that I want to put in each part. And then later on when I'm writing that part, I already have some of it written. I can pull it in. I just have to like make it make sense.

[00:14:07] Um, but I will say for book four, for wild goose chase, it was just like, oh, okay. I got like three months. Let's do this. Um, and it was the fastest book I've ever written and it was a mess. And I sent it to my editor without even my husband reading it. Usually he reads everything I write, like the day I write it. And even he, I was like, nope, nope. You're not even, it's not even fit for consumption. It has to go. I need to get this out of my hands.

[00:14:33] And thankfully my editor was like, um, very, very pleased with it. And was like, this is like some of your best work. Hey. I was like, wow, really? And she's like, I was a little worried, honestly, when you said you hadn't like read back through it, but it's really, really good. Um, so that was a really unusual experience for me to write that way. I think, um, finders keepers took a lot longer. Um, something like nine months, I think to draft the first draft.

[00:15:02] Um, so yeah, I, I think my process is really book dependent, life dependent, uh, deadline dependent. I think I'm motivated by a deadline. Um, cause otherwise I'm just like, oh, I got time. I'll take a nap today. So that's yeah. I think, I think we finally have found the hack to my brain to get me to work quickly as like, give me a deadline. That's too tight and I'll make it. And then some, so.

[00:15:29] I love that though, because it's, I love hearing like how authors have to, how their brains work essentially, because it's like, everybody's so different. And it's just like, it's nice getting a little peek behind the curtain. Like, okay, this is fun. Um, so speaking of like writing, you did, you, you, you did mention you have a daughter.

[00:15:51] Uh, do you find that you have to have some sort of like structure or plan for your day in order to write around her schedule? Because I know I have my daughter and I'm like, writing is hard. Yeah. I mean, I'm lucky in a lot of ways. I'm really, um, fortunate. Um, and she's, uh, almost seven. So she is in school, which has been hugely helpful. I have to say, um, it does kind of guarantee me at least a few hours a day.

[00:16:21] To get stuff done. Um, I also have an extremely supportive husband, uh, who makes sure that if I am on deadline or something, I need time that he's, you know, taking care of stuff. Um, and I also, uh, he also works from home. So that eases a lot of the burden to of like, you know, if I last minute can't like go pick up from school, he can and things like that. Um, and also this is my full time job, which is like the most. Just like fortunate thing of all.

[00:16:49] I think I know a lot of people who by choice or not are balancing, you know, a full time career, um, plus a writing career on top of it. And that, um, plus parenting, I think would be like, I don't know how I would manage that. But for me, because it's my job, um, because I have those kinds of structures in place, I do kind of know what my days are going to look like for the most part.

[00:17:18] And then if, you know, there's a curveball I can adjust. Um, and then that doesn't, that's not to say that like curveballs don't happen. Um, I mean, I, my husband does work for an organization, so he technically should like be working when he's, um, so I can only ask so much of him.

[00:17:39] Um, and so if like my daughter's home sick, or if like there's an appointment or an afterschool activity that starts at 430, like, I am the parent who has the more flexible schedule. Um, and sometimes that can get a little frustrating. Um, but you know, I think in some ways, the less, again, this goes back to maybe deadlines are good for me.

[00:18:01] Um, I think the more pressure I have to like get something done in the time that I actually have, the better I use my time. I'm less likely to lose focus, less likely to convince myself it's not necessary to like do any work. Um, so even when I'm like frustrated because there's like a week in October where they're randomly off for like three days and then have like a two hour. Yeah. Two hour early. And I'm just like, I don't, things like that.

[00:18:28] I really like make better use of the time I do have, I think. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's a balancing act. And when she was little, it was a lot of nap time writing, um, or like switching off when my husband got home from work kind of stuff. Um, but I think without a supportive partner or like family or someone who can kind of tag team as necessary, it's way harder.

[00:18:52] And like people who still manage to write without those support structures, like I, they're amazing. Um, especially when they're also working, that's way beyond what my brain can handle. I love that. I love, I, it's, it's like hard for me to wrap my mind around like how to manage time in general. So I'm like, I love hearing, um, kind of how you do that. Uh, it's, it gives me hope for myself.

[00:19:23] Yeah. I mean, that simplifies things because what you're not seeing is that I have a planner and also two calendars and also like several different to-do lists, um, that don't always match up because I forget to update them all. Um, so it is kind of just like a, well, I'm hoping I'm not missing anything important, um, situation. But, uh, that's, um, I mean, yeah, I think. That's so relatable in such a mood. It's life. Like, yeah. It's life. Yeah.

[00:19:52] Um, so we don't want to keep you too much longer, but we do have a few questions that we always ask our guests. Um, okay. The first is we have a segment that we call fictional boyfriend of the week, um, where we pick our favorite fictional character that we experienced that week. So it doesn't have to be a boyfriend. Um, Karen's had a fictional granny. I've had a fictional son, fictional pets. Um, it doesn't have to be in a book.

[00:20:18] Um, it could be movies, TV, we've had video game, um, characters. So do you have like a fictional character that you were like, that is my favorite. That is my boo thing. That is my best friend. Um, this is where like every media that you've ever consumed just leaves your brain. I literally just finished a book where I really liked the guy and now I'm completely forgetting his name. His name was Will. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:44] So, uh, I just finished reading back after this by Linda Holmes, um, in preparation for when I'm in conversation with her and Sarah Goodman-Confino at the Gaithersburg Book Festival later this month. And, um, the male main character in that book, um, is just like, I don't know, he's got the perfect kind of charm and sense of humor. Uh, his name is Will and he's a waiter and also a photographer.

[00:21:09] And, um, their meet cute is like they meet while rescuing like a great Dane that escaped from its handler and they like lure him, uh, with peanut butter. And, um, then she's like, your dog's so cute. And he's like, it's not actually my dog. I just, I was getting my haircut and I saw him running and I like chased after him. So he's got like half his haircut and like is still wearing the like cape from the haircut plate. Oh my God. Um, it sounds like a dream. I love him already. Yeah.

[00:21:38] He's just like the perfect mixture of, that I love of, of charming and funny and direct with her. Like he's not like coy about his interests, but he's not creepy. And I just, I think Glenda Holmes did such a good job writing somebody that it's like, yes, if she didn't end up with him, I would like rage quit everything. I love it. I'm leaving earth today. I love it. Love it. Thank goodness it's a romance or I would not be okay. All right.

[00:22:08] So kind of along the same lines, um, we, I mean, we're obsessed with your books. We have been dreaming of this for, been screaming about, like, I think when we got the email about like you possibly, I passed away. We were like, Oh wait, there's no question. Like this has to happen. Um, so we will continue to be shouting about your books, especially this one. I'm obsessed. Um, anyways, but we want to know, like, what are you reading? What are you recommending?

[00:22:38] Um, and it doesn't necessarily have to be like right now, if you have like an all time favorite that you want to recommend anything like that. Um, I relatively recently read, um, when the tides held the moon, um, by Vanessa Vita Kelly. It just came out and, um, I read an arc and, um, they are both a writer and an illustrator. And so there are really amazing illustrations in the book.

[00:23:03] Um, but it's about, it takes place in the early 20th century on Coney in Coney Island, um, at one of the amusement parks there, which like is catnip for my like history master's degree. Um, and it's about like a young Puerto Rican man who, um, basically accidentally joins this like sideshow and, um, helps them steal a merman from the ocean.

[00:23:32] And he falls in love with the merman and it's just, ah, I love it so much. It was like one of the best things. That sounds amazing. It's perfect. It hasn't, it has no right being as good as it is. Like it's unfair that they are able to both write and draw at like, as well as they do. People are such show offs. Yeah, like how dare you. Stay in your lane. Pick a lane.

[00:24:02] My gosh. Oh, I love it. Um, okay. So you touched on it slightly, but book four, what are you allowed to tell us about what comes next? Um, so it's been announced. So I'm allowed to tell you, I guess almost anything I want. I'm going to stop me really. It's called wild goose chase.

[00:24:25] Um, it is about sort of rival antique dealers, um, who wind up with a illegal taxidermy goose. That they then lose and have to go find again. Um, there's a lot about bird law. Um, it literally starts with an excerpt of the migratory bird treaty act of 1918. Wait, I love this. Why? Like this is a problem.

[00:24:52] Um, and, um, there's like a historical B plot with a female ornithologist in the early 20th century. Um, and a newspaper man slash illustrator. Um, which, uh, it, it's not to spoil anything, but, uh, that part takes place in a place you might be familiar with Catocton, Maryland. Um, there, there are little shout outs to Fountain and his seltzer company.

[00:25:20] And, um, yeah, it's just, it's, like I said, it's one of the fastest things I've ever written. And I just, I love it so much. It's wacky. There's a mannequin warehouse. Oh my gosh. It sounds like a blast. Like, yeah. I mean, we already know that though. Sold. Sold. I need it now. Um, so this is the part where we do have to give you a little bit of bad news.

[00:25:48] Um, but now that you have been on the podcast, you're actually legally obligated to come back for all future book releases. Nice. So sorry. Not sorry. Um, but in the meantime. So we'll see you for book four. We will see you for book four. Um, I'm, I already know I love it. Like based on this premise alone, I'm like, this is the perfect book. Like, I'm sorry. It sounds amazing. I can't wait.

[00:26:14] Um, but in the meantime, we will be telling everybody to go read Finder's Keepers. By the time this episode actually airs, the book will be out. So you can go into a store and pick it up and you should do that. And you should also pick up Sarah's other books because they're just as excellent. I literally just binged your, your other two recently. And I'm just like, where have, where have you been all my life? Why have I not read these sooner? So I'm very, very excited about everybody getting to read this.

[00:26:45] Um, thank you so much for hanging out with us, Sarah. This has been so much fun. Thank you. Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. Um, we can't wait for everybody to read it and we can't wait for the next time. I know. We'll see you for book four. Yay. Sounds good. All right. Bye. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. I love her. I love her. I love her. I love her. I feel like years in the making because I feel like I've talked about Mrs. Nash's ashes,

[00:27:13] like at least two years ago, at least two years ago. Yeah. At least. At least. Yeah. Um, yeah. I, that was crazy. That was so cool. I like, seriously, when you first talked about Mrs. Nash's ashes, I was like, this book sounds amazing. Um, and then I read it and I was like, this book is amazing. And then I read happy medium and I'm like, Oh my God, it gets better. And now I'm like, Oh my God, it keeps getting better. Like, I love her. It's so good.

[00:27:42] Everybody go pick up her books, please. I beg of you. And if you're on Patreon. Oh, she's here begging for attention. Uh, love. He just, he just wants love. Just some love. Just a little baby. That's all. He's a baby. Baby. He's just a baby. I just take him to the vet today. Oh. Not a fan. Two shots later. Poor baby.

[00:28:11] He screamed and cried and tried to bite the needle. It was a whole mess. Hi baby. But he is, uh, healthy. No concerns. Good. He's had some tummy issues. So they gave him some meds just to make sure that that gets knocked out. But he's all good. They were like, we're a fan here. Yay. And he's got a tag ladies and gents and theys and thems. Love, love, love.

[00:28:40] He's official. He's official. He's officially a Purvis. He's a Purvis. This poor guy. No, he's got the best home. He does. He's got the best. Purvis dogs have a better life than a lot of children. True. Our words have never been spoken. I mean, I would say I would be George Bailey over being any kid on this earth right now. He goes on vacation. Oh man. He's in a king sized bed.

[00:29:09] He does what he wants. Love, love, love. Love, love, love. And now we're back in our original clothes for Patreon. What? The magic. How did they do that? Magic. We just snapped. I'm not going to, I'm not going to snap because if I snapped, our clothes would change back. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. Too much power in these hands. All right, friends. If you enjoyed this little mini-sode, please like, follow, and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to us on. Follow us on social media.

[00:29:39] We are at TheIncoherent Fangirl on all the things. You can visit our website, TheIncoherentFangirl.com, where you can also stream all our episodes as well as read our blog. And, of course, you can subscribe to our Patreon for early access to podcast episodes, full video episodes, and bonus content. You can also, fun times, go do some shopping at our merch store, TheIncoherentFangirl.com. Lots of cute stuff designed by Mandy over there. Bye.

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[00:31:04] You can use either code Karen10 or Mandy10 for 10% off, but you have to spell Karen right or you're not going to get any summer break at all. No. Ever. That's awful. Please bump me in here. That is awful. Yeah. Yeah.

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[00:32:15] Spooky stories. Then you can go listen to and follow at searcherspodcast on all the things. Spooky stories. I'm there a lot. It's a good time. And then you can also go follow at searchersbelieve on everything. That's the paranormal investigation group. And if you go to searchersbelieve.com slash shop and get some searchers merch designed by me, if you use code Fangirl10, you'll get 10% off. Yay!

[00:32:43] And that is how you support the show husband and, in turn, me getting more books and stuff. So, much obliged. We support this. And that is our little baby episode. A little baby episode of the Incoherent Fangirl. Again, we'll see y'all in August. We love you. We love you. Bye. Bye. We are sponsored by our friends at Here Comes the Nerd.

[00:33:11] Pins, stickers, magnets, and more. Here Comes the Nerd has happy art for all fandom-loving hearts. New customers can use coupon code Fangirl during checkout for 20% off their first order at herecomesthenerd.com. Coupon applies to ready-to-ship items only. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Thank you.