I’m Not Crying, My Eyes Are!

[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Chloe Gong. My name's Hannah Nicole Mayer and you're watching the Incoherent Fangirl podcast. The Incoherent Fangirl podcast which you are now listening to. I'm gonna draw a heart. Welcome to the Incoherent Fangirl where we not only have two repeat offenders

[00:00:27] but they're kind of a big deal. Kind of a big deal. And one of them's the third girl. Yeah. I'm so excited. Yay. Well so we're gonna change clothes in the middle of this episode. And I'm gonna change headphones and hair. It's gonna be crazy. Watch. It's magic. I'm Mandy from Renadon. And I'm Karen from Tallinn. And welcome back to the podcast.

[00:00:56] We're very excited for this episode. Oh this timey-wimey is gonna be timey-wimey AF. Yeah, I there's a lot going on here. Okay. I don't think you have to give a specific date for the first one. I can. I have dates. I have all the dates. Okay, so in...

[00:01:20] We got two timelines. There's so many timelines. This is Loki season two happening right now on the podcast. So... Hot. In our timeline it is both July 9th and July 28th. And in your timeline it is August 7th. Look at that. See, I have dates. Hey, we're all over the place. It's crazy. It's crazy.

[00:01:45] That sound means we have an intruder alert! And it's not just an intruder. It's a repeat offender. Repeat offender. I'm freaking out as always because we're talking to Chloe. They need to drag me away. How could I be a repeat offender like this? We love having you. We love... You know, I'm actually like kind of upset you're not here with your ski mask and baseball bat to like break in. That's what you said you would do last time.

[00:02:14] My 10 knives. I start throwing them. Yes. Living in! Thank you so much, Chloe, for coming back. We're so excited to have you. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be back. So, the last time you were here we were talking about Immortal Longings. Now we're talking about the end of the trilogy, Eyes of Kings. Which, where has time gone? I blinked and took one nap. I don't know.

[00:02:39] Yeah. Like, time passed like that and Immortal Longings was almost three years ago now. Which is... More than three. That's crazy to think about. Around three years ago. I feel like it was just yesterday. Me too. I don't understand. Time is very weird. This is so bad that you don't like it. All right. So, the first thing we usually ask is like, can you give us the elevator pitch for the book? And it's kind of hard because it's like a trilogy. Maybe for the series? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:08] Like, whatever you think you can do without spoilers. That is the thing. I never know how to talk about a book two or three of a series without massively spoiling the ones that came before. Because I'm like, well, in order to pitch it at its essence, I gotta say what came first. So, I guess as a whole, the Flesh and False Gods trilogy is inspired by Antony and Cleopatra.

[00:03:31] It's an epic fantasy series following three main characters, Kala, Anton, and August, who each have their own motivations and goals. And as they start forming alliances, betraying each other, getting all of their political power into

[00:03:51] gear, it can only lead toward one conclusion, and there can only be one king. And that is what Eyes of Kings takes us into for the finale. So, okay, we know where the story came from. Obviously, it's an Antony and Cleopatra with a twist. But what made you choose that story? And how did it come about?

[00:04:18] Yes. It's very much Antony and Cleopatra with a huge chain. Forget a twist. It's like a triple knot on the story, taking it away from the original Shakespeare. I like to say that Immortal Longings was sort of Antony and Cleopatra,

[00:04:42] the characters, as opposed to Antony and Cleopatra, the entire play. Because I was very much intrigued by the relationship that Antony and Cleopatra, the Shakespearean characters, had with each other. And as I was entering into the adult space, because Immortal Longings is my debut into adult fantasy, I thought

[00:05:05] there was so much juicy, delicious, messy potential to work with her. And so much of the strange plot emerged from my desire to really push these characters as far as they could possibly go before they're all having mental breakdowns. And there are a lot of those across the series. The setting is very

[00:05:30] unusual. It's the 90s, kind of. It's a secondary world. You get remnants of the Kowloon Wold City, which was a place that no longer exists. But at one point in time, in our real world, it was the densest place in the world. There's a lot of inspiration with that for the capital, the Twin Cities. And then you head out and you kind of get the Roman Empire meshed with ancient China. So,

[00:05:58] so many almost conflicting sources of inspiration. But I felt that they all went together very nicely when it came to the theme of power and how people, what people are willing to do in order to hold on to power in order to use that power against other others. It is so hard to talk about this book without spoilers at all, honestly. Like I'm just skirting around every, every twist that you kind of

[00:06:27] meet. But I had the idea for this world building and then I really wanted to use this kind of Shakespearean dynamic within it. And that's, that's how we got to Flesh and Pulse Gods. I love how the world is like, like you said, like ancient China, you know, Roman Empire, and then there's cyber cafes. Oh yeah. Classic 90s. Yeah. I love it. That's so cool to me.

[00:06:54] I am. So I, there, you have an author's note in the version of the book that we have where you're talking about kind of the process to get to this book. You started writing Immortal Longings and it was half a decade ago or more. Yeah. Scary. And so, and it obviously it took a time to get here. What do you, do you think that the way that the world kind of changed in that time also affected the story that you were writing?

[00:07:22] Yeah, for sure. I think how my environment changed affected the way I was writing. I think the growth I've had as a person in five years completely influenced the way that I approach my work and therefore the story too. I think that's why the Flesh and Pulse Gods series is an interesting case study in my catalog because it's very different to say my young adult duologies where

[00:07:52] I basically start and finish that story within one to three years maximum. And I'm still the same person almost from the start of a duology to the end of a duology. But Immortal Longings was written my winter break of my senior year in college and Ice of Kings was, you know, finished this year.

[00:08:17] Some tweaks were still happening in like January, you know, and that stretches out the timeline significantly. But in those five years, there have been massive global events where you think that you can't possibly get people acting stranger than fiction, but the way that our global climate and our politics, you see people all the time. Like you write that person in as a tyrant in a book

[00:08:47] and people will be like, not believable, needs motivation. And I think that has kind of changed the way that I thematically go through everything where sometimes people are just greedy. Sometimes people do just covet power. And that's not to say you should take the easy way out and be like, I'm not going to give them motivation because that's what real people are like. But there isn't, there is a certain, I think,

[00:09:16] willingness that I've had over the years as I was approaching Eyes of Kings that there is, there's a plot that you meet in this final book where you find out more about where these characters came from and what they're intrinsically made of. And there was a very interesting thing that I wanted to do when it comes to

[00:09:44] explaining a character's motivation. And it's less about, well, where did this come from? And more, who does this make you? And can you ever run from that kind of destiny if that's just something that lives within you? This is the vaguest answer in the world. I'm so sorry. No, it's great. I mean, some people are just evil or people want power just to have power and they don't have any motivation other than that. And I think that also is interesting to explore, I think.

[00:10:12] Yeah, for sure. I think also the way that you wrote some of the characters too and like their backstory, it's very reminiscent of the real world where this was always in you. This was always something that was a part of you. You are just now letting it be shown. And that's so real to today's, unfortunately. That's a great way to put it. I mean, I've always said, I think immortal longing is about delusion. You kind of read these characters' internal monologues and you're like,

[00:10:41] that's not true. Where did that come from? And as you're going through vilest things, you're kind of having them hit the wall and seeing like, oh, I'm kind of wrong here, but I can't be wrong. And then I feel like book three is when it all is out in the open and they really have to reckon with that. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Can you talk about the magic system in this series a little bit? Like,

[00:11:06] what was it like to craft something so intricate and keep track of all of the rules and how everything works? Yes. So I guess the magic system across these books, I always write fantasy that feels somewhat like sci-fi disguised, but it's technically fantasy. And so these characters can swap bodies.

[00:11:33] These bodies are like clothing to them if they carry the jumping gene and they can invade someone else's body. And as the series goes on, there are more revelations as to how exactly this kind of magic works. When you open immortal longings, you kind of think that there are a set amount of rules of what can happen. You have to have someone with an eye view, or there's always that visible

[00:12:01] marker of someone who has jumped and changed bodies. But these characters start to discover that the rules of their world are actually not as rigid as they believed. There are sigils that they can use to change the way that this jumping system works. And then there are other elements. Actually, this is not a spoiler. I can say this. Suddenly, all along, there have been gods in their world that they

[00:12:30] sort of believed in immortal longings, but they were like, well, no one's ever seen one. It's been hundreds of years since the last war. And Eyes of Kings essentially gives real evidence that these are people that walk among them. And these are people that have been on their earthly plane since that war.

[00:12:53] This was something that I had intended all along. And Roma, he said, hello. He's like, you're talking about me now. Hello. He's like, excuse me, let's talk about me now. The, I, something that I've always loved in fantasy series is when you get like four or five books in,

[00:13:21] and suddenly it feels like everything that you learned in book one was actually just fake. Like everything was fake. Throw out everything you know. And it is always very compelling when it's not that the author has lied to you per se, but you just believed everything the characters believed, and then things got tugged out from underneath them. That was something that I went into wanting to do. I wanted immortal longings to kind of feel like a very

[00:13:50] Inclosed, established world within the twin cities and within what one of these city dwellers would believe. And as soon as you blow everything wide and enter the rest of the kingdom in book two, these things should change. The more people you encounter and the more experiences you encounter should change a character's understanding of their world. And so eyes of kings is really when I got to play with it way more than I had in the previous two books,

[00:14:20] because we get to learn all the lore of their magic effectively. Um, you see where these characters and their origins came from. You see where all of these political elements have stemmed from and some of them have, some of them stretch back way, way further than

[00:14:43] we would have believed from book one. Um, it was kind of a nightmare to organize, especially because I, I had left myself, you know, notes and bits and pieces of foreshadowing in books one and two. But again, this was a series that spanned five years to write. So there were other times where I would come up with something for book three because it made sense for what I always thought I was going to do. And then I

[00:15:09] went, Oh, forgot to do that in book one. So we're going to work with what we have. Um, other times it's like, I accidentally left myself foreshadowing where I, I figured something out in eyes of kings and I would panic and think, Oh no, but I did this thing. And I go back and I'm like, actually that does work all along. I left myself those steps. Um, so it was a lot of fun to get to

[00:15:33] do that big final conclusion where all the answers come out because they've been hiding and waiting in one and two, but Oh my God, planning something like that. I let's just say it's going to be a long time before I do something like that again. Fair. That's fair. No, well, speaking of planning, like you kind of hinted at it, but like, did you have the whole trilogy kind of mapped out when you

[00:16:00] sat down to write immortal longings? Like you knew kind of where it was going to go, or was it a lot of discovery as you were developing the story? What I knew was very rough in the beginning. Um, I, I have to know the ending for a series that that's held true across all of my books. Whenever I'm starting something and kind of deciding how long the story should span,

[00:16:24] I need to know what that end image is. Um, when I sold the Flesh of Pulse Gods trilogy, I had the entire manuscript of immortal longings written. Mortal longings has not changed much from the beginning of its inception. I had maybe a, uh, I would say a one page outline for vilest things. The shape of that was kind of in place, but there was a lot about the expansion of the world building

[00:16:52] that I wanted to kind of discover along the way. And then I had the final image of Eyes of Kings. And I think in that proposal, I maybe had like three lines of description and that was it. I was like, that's all you get to know at this point. We got out, we got to work together to figure this out. Um, so there was a lot of discovery, I think, especially vilest things. I rewrote it twice.

[00:17:18] And it's not necessarily because the plot changed that much, but more because the way that I got to it was all wrong. I had to do it wrong so many times. And then I actually figured out what it was that these characters wanted to do. They were being very, very stubborn. Um, Eyes of Kings was less of a rewrite situation, more of a, for many drops in the beginning, there were just gaping holes. Like,

[00:17:43] I could not figure out how we got the characters from point A to point C. Like point B was just a shadow and I would try things out and it wouldn't work. I couldn't connect them. And, uh, it took a lot of, I think, hacking away at this thing and seeing if that goes somewhere else, bringing in a whole new subplot, seeing if that helped before everything actually kind of fell into place. So again, nightmare

[00:18:11] organization. We got there in the end. We made it there. That's what matters. Yes. Um, okay. Look, we're all here for Anton and Kala, but can we get more August and Gallopay? And did you plan for us to love them so much? They do seem to be the bad favorites. You know? So you didn't expect that? I, in a way I did because I think they, they hold a lot of my, um,

[00:18:36] Okay. So in high school, I took classics and I was a huge Octavian Agrippa shipper. Okay. So August and Gallopay completely come from my own belief that those historical figures were actually in love, but could they act on that love? No, they had an empire to conquer and you know, bad things were

[00:19:02] always happening. Right. So no, like they, they couldn't act on it. Um, so I would say that I very much went into the series with the express intention of making August and Gallopay canon at the end of it all, but it's not like they have a cute lovey-dovey relationship. No.

[00:19:23] You know, like they, August might be fundamentally unlovable. He needs to figure that out for himself. Maybe get some therapy and Gallopay has no other purpose outside of August. And that's not healthy. You know, if you had, if those two walked into a modern day therapist's office, my God, she should be making bank off them.

[00:19:48] Bill would be. I kind of like to, I like to think of them as, uh, like Marshall and Benedict if they needed a shit ton of therapy. Cause like, they are, they're like, they're such, they're such characters that I think we love as readers, but like, they're so messed up. Yeah. In real life, you're like, best thing you've got to get out of there. But like, if they just went to therapy,

[00:20:13] they could be so cutesy. I have said this before where I do feel like, okay, so this, this goes all the way back to like a very meta English major look at it where Romeo and Juliet and Antony and Cleopatra share a lot of DNA. And so the fact that my These Valentine's characters share some DNA with the immortal longings characters is on purpose. Like I get people sometimes saying like, you've just written the same people. And I'm like, okay, first of all, no, I haven't. They have the same archetype, but they're very, very different people.

[00:20:43] Like, yes. Kella is sure. Does she feel similar to Juliet? Yes. But she's Juliet on crack. She's on crack all the time. Like Juliet would not behave like this because she grew up loved. Same as like August and Galipay, they have that kind of like stoic versus passionate, like DNA. Marshall and Benedict grew up loved. They may, maybe not by their parents, but like with each other,

[00:21:10] you know, August never had that. Like that. Yeah. That's valid. Did you ask the last question? I was like, hold on, I got distracted. By the salt of these characters in therapy. Yeah. I was just like, yeah, I was like, no, they, they are, they, they are basically just dialed up real, real hard. Yeah. Um, okay.

[00:21:40] So you, this, like you said, this was your like foot into adult fantasy. Um, but since then you've kind of come back to young adults. I have. Was there, um, was there kind of, well, I don't, I don't want to say like, was there a reason, but like, how was your right? Like the writing process, like, because I imagine like writing for an adult audience would be significantly different than writing for a young adult audience.

[00:22:06] And I feel, I don't remember exactly, but were you juggling the two, any two of the projects at the same time? I was, I'm always juggling two projects. Yeah. It, um, it was very different. I think writing, writing for adults and writing for young adults is a very different experience, in my opinion. Um, I, I've, I've always said like, it's not that my writing style changes that much.

[00:22:33] I think it's more what I'm thinking about and who I'm talking to. I, I feel very passionately about the fact that young adult books should serve young adults as their like target audience. I'm not saying that adults should not enjoy it. Adults absolutely should also be able to enjoy a young adult book. I think that's how, that's how, you know, it's the marker of, uh, a story that resonates with everyone, like with humankind, right?

[00:23:00] Like that's how, you know, the story has hit something important. But I also think having young adult literature is just, it can make or break a teenager's development. It made or, it made or break it. It, it, it defined me as a teenager. Yes. I think if I hadn't had all of this young adult lit, I would have become a very, very different person.

[00:23:28] Um, and it served me for the better. Uh, and I want to be able to continue this and have these books that speak directly to some random 16 year old who just picks it off the shelf. Um, and so as I was approaching Coldwire, which I was writing, I think simultaneously with Vilas Things, um, I really had to think about why is this a young adult story specifically?

[00:23:53] What is it about the coming of age narrative that I'm most interested in? And how does that relate to the science fiction, cyberpunk, dystopian story that I'm also trying to tell? Um, I think the older I get, the more that my default is an adult story because I'm always writing something that interests me in that moment.

[00:24:15] And to write young adult has to be an intentional effort on my part where I am thinking this is going to be interesting for a 16 year old. This character arc is something they can relate to and they should feel really excited when thinking about these narratives and these story arcs. I mean, I, I remember being 16 and trying to read adult books and I'd be like, man, this shit's boring.

[00:24:45] You know, like I, I want that distinction to exist in my work. Sure. Yeah. I feel like you also have such a unique, um, perspective on it because you were writing young adult as a young adult and then you moved into adult as you were moving into your adulthood. So like, I feel like you have like a very niche specific set of skills because of that. Well, thank you for saying that.

[00:25:11] Cause I actually, I actually found it kind of hard to write Coldwire because of that. Because when I was writing these violent delights as a teenager, I never think that hard about it. I just had to think like, well, what am I interested in? And then as immortal longings rolled around, I was thinking, what am I interested in right now? Coldwire was the first time I was writing YA not as a YA. And so I think that gave me a lot of insecurity. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm not, I'm not hip anymore.

[00:25:40] I don't know what the teens are saying. Yeah. Literally. Listen, I, that Coldwire, the way that my jaw dropped, girl. Well, I need you to know how, I've never seen Karen move so fast as she did to get Coldwire. We were at y'all west. Oh my God. We were, we were. I was like, I have your child go. Was this the 2025 drop? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:08] Mandy was like, I've got your kid. You just go. And I'm like, if you think I was going to wait for that child. And she was like gone. She would have caught up eventually. You said my kid could bend for myself or herself. Yeah. Yeah. The funniest part of that though, is that this is so off topic, but the funniest part of that is that I worked so hard to get, I was like, I ran so hard. I came home from y'all west and went to my bookstore and they had a PR box for me. Oh my God.

[00:26:36] I was like, I could have just relaxed. Look, we made sure like I got this in the mail before Karen told me she had it and we had not confirmed our interview. And I didn't say a word. Cause I was like, if I don't hear something from her in like three or four days, I'm going to mail this to her. I texted her from y'all west. I'm like, Chloe Gong just personally handed me a copy. I don't know how to exist in life right now. I'm like, this is the best day ever.

[00:27:06] Well, it was actually really funny because I brought, I brought those eyes of Kings arts to y'all west. And I was like, I got to figure out some way to get rid of them. And on the morning I saw you and I was like, Here we go. The universe was working its magic because that was like, that was the perfect, most perfect timing. I love that. Okay. We promised we wouldn't keep you forever, even though we want to. So we have to hit our questions we always ask.

[00:27:35] And this is where anything you've ever read, watched, consumed, just leaves your head. Oh God. Everything. So we have a segment on the podcast called fictional boyfriend of the week. It doesn't have to be a boyfriend. We just pick a, a fictional character that week that we love. Karen's had a fictional granny. I've had a fictional son. Any characters. So are there any characters lately that you're vibing with in books, TV, movies?

[00:28:05] And now you're like, have I ever read a book in my life? I literally, you prepared me for this. And then I just went, I forgot everything that I recently read. I've never seen it. What is a show? Well, I, I just binged big little lies on HBO. I'm very late to the game on this. Cause this show was like, it's fantastic. Like, I think I always knew that it was received very, very well, but I kind of just never watched it.

[00:28:35] And then the other day, I mean, my boyfriend's been out of town for like two weeks. So I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to binge television in the time where we're usually socializing. Right. I was exclusively working or binging big little lies. What a life I lead. But it is fantastic. The, the writing and the, it's a very stacked cost. It's Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman, Shailene Woodley, Adam Scott plays Reese Witherspoon's husband. Oh my God.

[00:29:03] Like the, the, the way that these characters are able to bounce off each other and specifically the final, one of the final shots of the last episode of season one, I was like, oh my God, my jaw was open. It is fantastic. I guess that's not the, I don't know who my fiction, who the boyfriend of the two would be for life. That's okay. You gave us a show to watch. I need to hang on while I'm working in the background. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:31] That kind of leads into the next like mandatory question is like what, obviously, obviously, you know, we love your books, but we would love to know, like, what are you reading? What are you recommending? Is there anything recently that you've just been like, everybody needs to get their hands on this? Yeah. I mean, the last book that I really, really felt that everybody needs to get their hands on this passion was The Poet Empress by Shintao. I think that book has been getting its flowers. I've seen so many people love it.

[00:30:00] And I'm like, good. You should. Like, I feel personal about this. If people don't love it, I'm like, why? And what's wrong with you? It's so wonderful. It's a standalone fantasy. There aren't that many of those. So I'm always very, very impressed. That's exciting. When there are. Yeah. I'm like jealous sometimes because I don't think I could ever write like a standalone like that. I need words. I need time. There's too many words. I need page count.

[00:30:30] But The Poet Empress is a, it's an epic fantasy. It's inspired by ancient China, one of the dynasties. And it's about this girl who becomes the concubine of a tyrant king. And she is trying to use poetry magic to kill him, essentially. But in order to truly write the spell that will kill him, she must learn to love him. The book is sometimes slated as a romantic. See, it is not. Do not go in.

[00:31:00] That is what I've seen so many people say. They're like, do not go in thinking this is romantic. Do not. Yeah. Do not go in expecting to twirl your hair, kick your feet. I think the romance is incredibly compelling. I loved it so much. But it is very much a dark, romantic subplot that explores these very twisted characters in a fantasy novel. It's not a romantic. Very important.

[00:31:30] Always appreciate a warning. Okay. Last but not least, what comes next from Chloe Gong? Oh, okay. Can you tell us anything? As far as what is announced, the next thing is the third and final book in the Strange Loom trilogy, which started with Cold Wire. And actually, next is Deadlock. I was like, wait, Deadlock's next. I was like, wait. All I said. I'm like, it's done.

[00:32:00] It's already out. I'm like, wait a minute. Are we getting an exclusive right now? Book three is coming up before book two. That would be hilarious. What a marketing tactic. Well, next is Eyes of Kings. That comes out August 4th, which it might be out by the time this podcast. I think by the time this episode airs, it will be out. Okay. So Eyes of Kings, out in the world. It has completed the Flesh and False Gods trilogy. I'm super excited for everyone to read it.

[00:32:27] Next in November is Deadlock. It's book two of the Strange Loom trilogy. That's called Cold Wire. These characters just never catch a break. You get them right back in the fray, going up against Milecorp. You have, I've kind of revealed already that there are more point of views in Deadlock. You know, Cold Wire, you just had the two alternating. Deadlock, you've got three.

[00:32:57] You've got three different characters. It's probably easy to guess who they are. And you have the three because, you know, they're split up for a while before they converge into the very, very interesting conspiracy that is newly emerging. I'm very excited. It's got that brand new cover design. The paperback that matches it is coming out November 3rd, so right before that. And then in the next, after that, is the final book in the Strange Loom trilogy.

[00:33:27] I have something secret that is going to be announced hopefully soon. I've been saying this, I think, since 2024, where I'm like, hopefully something's getting announced soon. And I've just been too enthusiastic, it would appear, because we are in 2026. And I've still just been vague posting about it. But this time I mean it.

[00:33:55] Soon, I will get to talk about it more. I've been pitching it already to people as Emily Henry meets the apocalypse. It's a very different switch for me. But at the same time, it is still like anything you'd expect in a Chloe Gong book. It's in there. It's traumatized characters. Is it YA as well? Or is it back to adults? It's adult. Do we need to cut that part out?

[00:34:24] Do we need to cut talking about that out? I've actually blocked my mouth about this for two years now. So if I was supposed to keep secrets, it's a little too late. Yeah. If they want to sick me for that, they've had two years to do it. So I'm going to assume it's OK. Well, this is the part we do have to remind you that you are actually legally obligated to come back for all your book releases. Of course.

[00:34:54] Not a minute. Them's the rules. Sorry. Binding. Yeah. I signed that contract. Yeah. In blood. Yeah. Yeah. In blood. It's a new form of a sigil, right? That's. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. So. Totally sanitary. A hundred percent. Okay. So like we said, when this episode airs, Eyes of Kings will be out. The whole trilogy will be out. You can pick up. Oh my God.

[00:35:24] All of it. That's crazy. That is crazy. I really feel like it just happened. And here we are. Oh. I can't believe when it's out. People can read all three at the same time. They don't have to suffer the two year caps in between. Girl. Rude. The pain. I feel like they should still have to suffer. Yeah. I know, right? You actually have to, when you put your hold on, you have to wait. Yeah. You put it in a time save. Yeah. It's locked.

[00:35:51] So everybody go out and pick up your copies of Eyes of Kings. If you don't have the first two, you can pick them out now in floppy paperback or regular hardcover. You could do either. Whatever works best for you. It's very exciting. Or both. Or many. Yeah. Look at the air show. There are a bunch. There are so many. I just sent an email to one of my store owners and I was like, can you order these UK books for me? And they're like, half of them are Chloe books.

[00:36:21] And you know what? When the UK books look that different, it's like having an art object. Right. I'm like, well, that's the only way I'm going to get deadlock in that version. Right? So. I'm just realizing I have to make you more. So around her birthday last year, I made Karen a little tiny bookshelf. And I like, literally was like, what has Chloe Gong ever touched? That is so cute. And I think it's on there, but like, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to add more now.

[00:36:50] I know she's got, she's got the anthologies on here as well. Oh, they all come out? They're like individual books? Yeah. They all come out. They look like actual little books. They do. And they have like the cover and like the ISBN. The back and everything. But I'm like, every book Chloe has touched has to be on this shelf. If her name is in this book. I am so incredibly honored. I'm so honored to be a part of that. The way I'm like gearing up to email Simontine.

[00:37:20] I'm like, guys, I know you don't know me, but like deadlock. Please. I'll cry. Thanks. Well, it sounds like arcs are going out soon. I know. I keep telling my store. I'm like, guys, if it comes in, nobody touches it. It's mine. Yeah. Well, thank you, Chloe, so much for being here. This has been so much fun as always. Thank you for having me. I love to be an intruder. All right. Come on. Say bye. Can you kiss my mouth for us? Yes, I will. I will. Say bye. Many, many kisses.

[00:37:50] Bye, Roma. So cute. Thank you. We'll talk soon. Have a good night. You too. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. There's just like water coming out of my eyes. They're like, why is Mandy crying?

[00:38:20] This is Karen's favorite author. They're like burning. And I'm like, oh, you're like, how do I, how do I? Yeah. I'm okay. I'm not crying. It's fine. My eyes just are. i'm not crying my eyes are name of the episode there you go oh my god all right i love her

[00:38:41] she's the best i love her too she's so freaking cute that sound means we have an intruder alert are you an intruder at this point or are you just part of the girl i feel like i feel like i could like it's not my house but i know my way around you know you you are the kind of friend that just you don't need to knock you don't need an invitation you just walk right and guess what i've been this

[00:39:08] way my entire life i used to just show up at friends houses and they'd be like oh hannah's here again she comes over every day and i have a lovely home life like there's no reason i shouldn't return home to my parents you just want to spread your love to everybody you gotta scope out where what's going on over here love being with my friends and i grew up with so like i love my brothers but i think

[00:39:32] anytime i had like girlfriends i like craved like time with like other women yeah i was like please please i just get me away from all these i can't talk about the eagles anymore i can't but if anybody from philadelphia is watching this i'll talk about the eagles forever please don't hurt me go bird did i ever tell you that that i i am an eagles fan are wait do it did i know this information i don't know i'm like i feel like i probably haven't brought them up

[00:40:00] you probably never we probably never have had this conversation i was like no we're talking about the eagles i was like how did you start it in every area of my life you started it i know i 100 did and i think in a way subconsciously it is in my dna to bring it up in every your brothers are like yes yeah they indoctrinated me we did it i'm still shaking it all

[00:40:27] all right well as you can tell our dearest friend hannah nicole mayor is back we are talking about adversary to the villain oh my god i'm so excited i can't believe like the other three are here i know i feel like we just we're talking about book one and now i know i want to cry i want to cry about it it's so crazy to even think about it because i keep saying the third book and my mom's like it's the fourth and i'm like oh my god yeah i've written four of them yeah it feels like the

[00:40:56] time has just flown by like so quickly and i feel like i haven't talked this one was such a big one for me and i've talked to like so few people about it like everything so i'm i'm excited to chat about it this is this is the one that might break me hannah this is this might be the one that breaks me no because what did you do what do you mean

[00:41:25] she's like i'm a perfect angel what are you talking about literally it's such a goofy good time almost the whole time almost the whole time almost almost the whole time everyone's having it everybody's great actually there's a lot of turmoil in this book but it's funny turmoil can you can you elevator pitch a book for i can try i can without spoilers yeah so before

[00:41:54] in the series is where evie who was originally the villain's assistant has now found her way into a prophecy that she had no idea she was a part of and this is her sort of figuring out if she actually fits into that role or not while also trying to save the kingdom but also perhaps being the kingdom's greatest doom

[00:42:18] all right you're four books deep at this point okay i know how has writing changed for you has it changed at all like are you chaos or i think it's i think i just have nothing really process wise has changed i wish i could say that it has because i keep telling myself one year i'm gonna get it together and it's gonna be great and i don't want to be real i don't think it's possible i think i've actually grown to a place in life where my brain's done cooking and i've accepted that i am who i am

[00:42:48] and there's nothing wrong with the way i do it as long as i'm taking care of myself and not neglecting anything in my life so nothing like plotting wise has changed i still like to let a lot of the story be told to me as i write um and i find i somehow always am able to connect um everything back together um but there are obviously like our little seeds that i plant at the

[00:43:14] beginning that i know where they're gonna grow but everything between is is fun so i think i i'll always work with the shell of an outline but never anything else that hasn't changed i think just my confidence in myself is the thing that's changed the most because i go in with less so much less harsh on what i what i come out with and i so much remember writing book one every time i write another

[00:43:39] one because i think about how fun book one was to write and how much joy i took out of it and i always remind myself this is supposed to be fun and not always sometimes it sucks but that's that's life and that is anything that you do a copious amount of will at some point suck but also at some points be like the most wonderful euphoric thing you've ever done so i go in gentler um but i also go in with

[00:44:07] like more confidence because i know these characters so well like i'm like i know what you would do i know what you would say i know what you wouldn't do i know what you wouldn't say it feels like just coming back to like a big group of friends that i i could like give off their coffee orders and stuff so oh i love that yeah it's great we get to see um a little bit of a different side of a lot of these

[00:44:31] characters in this book i feel like um what was kind of did you have to sit down and kind of not necessarily talk to them because you know characters in your head but like was there some negotiating as to like what their personalities would be like now in this new world that they are they're the new way they're presenting themselves yeah yeah because i think everyone's kind of recalibrating who they

[00:44:56] are as a person because everything has been so meddled with um in this book are we saying spoilers or no i think we're trying to avoid it because well i mean you can't no no i'm so good at being this is like this is coming out during pub week so i'm so good at being vague so we will be there's just so much like uh like people trying to figure out their identities and one of my biggest struggles when i

[00:45:20] first started writing the book was that that's not like a uh like a cute funny thing like that's not a thing that i i necessarily want to make a laugh it off moment and i love laughing things off i think it's it's the best way to get over something or get through something but i think there are steps you need to take to get to that point and a lot of those steps cannot be skipped like processing it

[00:45:44] feeling it like mourning whatever it is that you feel like you lost out of it and then you can joke and laugh about it and and hopefully move on um and i think in this book i struggled with it mostly because evie has spent the last three books not dealing with i mean not really dealing with anything like she hasn't really addressed um her deep insecurities or or her drive and how problematic

[00:46:13] like her drive of existence is uh to herself in the long run and now she's kind of being forced to reframe that existence like she's always been helpful useful that's her entire identity and now it's being completely shifted into something else and she knows how to accept people of a different identity but she doesn't know how to accept herself in any role but someone that is useful in a good way

[00:46:39] so this is like kind of her figuring it out so it was a little bit at times i was like oh it's dark but also it was a lot of fun because i felt like the role reversals in this book are were really fun like the parts that were funny was that like okay here comes tristan and now he's being like kind of he's like really

[00:47:03] he's just so baby girl he really is and he really lets it out in this book he's like you know what i'm not pretending anymore i am giving it my all um and that that part i was looking forward to the most like when i started writing book three i was like i'm so excited for book four i can't wait for him to be a simp oh that was gonna be great so it was different but it was so much fun like it was it was it was an absolute joy

[00:47:32] well i'm glad it was a joy for you because you hit me in my feels quite a lot oh no um like i am someone raising children who i did not birth and there's one part where minor spoilers i guess but evie is like i became a mother the day you left and i would never there is nothing that would make me leave yeah and then uh like i can't remember the direct quote but it was like she's a woman who got loud the obviously the king is gonna yeah to silence her

[00:48:00] but then i i did not i've never related to a character more than when someone was called the enchantress frog hater i was like yes you and winnie would be like the best of friends my girl you would be like connected at the hip i think because she's just like ew gross and winnie's so funny because she has like no social skills because she was like

[00:48:27] never around like other people her age growing up she's like i don't know how to be like like she doesn't even understand the concept of polite really she's just like ew frogs are gross i hate them and he's like awful even if he was like that hurt my feelings she'd probably be like okay okay yeah telling me i don't know what that changes about what we are

[00:48:51] at this point so we do have like the cast is getting bigger even if we don't have like their povs how do you keep track of everybody like like we know you know the core you know family yeah what about all these like side characters and newbies how do you keep track of all of them too i really do think it's it's because i have such a big family in real life and everyone has such a

[00:49:15] distinct personality and traits that make me look at them and go you were a character out of a book or out of a movie because that's the people in my life make up like my favorite characters so i think the way that i can keep track of all of their traits and all of the things that they do is the way that i keep track of the characters it's it's not too difficult like i don't struggle with it too much that's it's one of the few things i don't struggle with actually

[00:49:44] i can imagine that it's like yeah you're just hanging out because like you said you've been with these characters a long time and i'm sure a lot of them have been percolating in the back of your mind and just waiting to find their way to the page yeah winnie was like cooking for a while i was really excited to introduce winnie because she's just so much fun um and she's so different from evie in the sense that she doesn't want to like smooth over a situation because she genuinely would not know how she's like i don't have that i love her so much thank you so much i want to go home

[00:50:13] can i please leave i would love nothing more than to not in the most neutral way possible i want to leave and so she was real for that it was a lot of fun it was really fun bringing um some character a character a couple characters back from book two that i had missed in book three they were fun to have a return um yeah i think that that i've built this little world and i feel like all everyone has their place

[00:50:40] in this little world um and it's it's it's the most fun part is is having all the characters interact so any scene they're all together i'm like yes it's my faith they're great it's so much fun the way they interact yeah i love um yeah my babies um was there anything because there's there were a lot of moments

[00:51:05] while reading this where i was just like i'm sorry what just happened were there any moments that like as you were writing really surprised you in the direction that it ended up going um no because this is the book i had planned like for all the books so this was really like i think the only things that may have shocked me at some points were like things that would come out of the characters mouths because i really do sometimes never know what they're going to say

[00:51:33] until i've typed it out and i'm like oh my goodness this was a choice you made something and we're going to discuss if this is going to stay or not because it's a little weird it got a little too weird you're like yeah i'm like ah um yeah i think there weren't like any any wait what moments the epilogue is a scene i've had planned for like almost since the get-go so the epilogue of

[00:52:01] this book like writing it was so like wiggy to me because i've kept it a secret in my head for so long that writing that epilogue felt like i was doing something bad i was like i'm not supposed to be doing this and now like there's people reading it and i'm like oh my god everyone's gonna actually look at it wait a minute that's supposed to be a secret but he's gonna know and i think it's just it's it's so exciting though because this feels like very much like a cliff edge that i just had to like

[00:52:28] leap over and i've made the leap and now it's now it's so exciting now i'm just like in the free fall and it's like a rush and it's so fun so um a lot of it was planned um but a lot of the way things happened like how we got from i had point a and b planned but how we got there was it was often a surprise yeah um silly one would you rather have drinks with blade organize files with becky or

[00:52:55] treat a gruesome wound with tatiana oh my god drinks with blade that's not even i don't even have to think about that one one because i would be no help to tatiana i would be so ill looking at wounds like i'd be like no thank you no i don't want to even go near her it's a no for me thank you so much um i think that becky would be i don't want to do that to becky i i'm over too much to have me there

[00:53:22] trying to organize like anything at all ever because i don't i do not have that skill i am organized chaos and becky is organized organized and just i might just like bring her coffee while she does it that may be acceptable but i certainly i certainly wouldn't be a help i'd be only

[00:53:48] i'm with you i feel like i would rather hang out with blade too than yeah either of those drinks with blade we'd have a blast a hundred percent it would be so fun so i think i know the answer to this but are there any characters in this book that are you're introducing for the first time that you're excited for readers to meet oh well yeah i mean in a sense you've already met this kid

[00:54:18] um i was like wait who oh yeah yeah that's a big one i think in my head i'm like we've met this character in another form already so he's he's brand spanking new though in it feels new in this body he's new in this body and i think that the way he thinks as a human versus as a a little frog um i think turtle he thinks a turtle you're so right the way he thinks versus like turtle

[00:54:48] versus human man is different so that was really interesting for me because i didn't realize that would be the case until i started writing this book and i was like oh he's kind of like a different like he's a little he thinks a little differently as a human than he did as a frog and i think that makes sense because he was thinking with more of a simplistic brain when he was a frog now he's like a human and has all these complicated emotions and feelings and all these things he was stuck so

[00:55:16] long too yeah he was stuck for 10 years like yeah it's it's a long time that's not a yeah quick and come right back yeah no no no it's a and tatiana notes it that was a kind of weird thing for me too because i was like what would it be like for somebody that was a animal for 10 years and like came back as a human being would probably be incredibly jarring and uncomfortable and difficult because you haven't been this for and with also some amount of relief but also fear because when are you going

[00:55:45] to go back to it um and kingsley obviously experiences all of that in this book so he was he was a lot of fun to introduce as as prince alexander as opposed to just kingsley such a sweet baby yes he he is he's a little bean okay this is kind of minor spoilery i guess but i'll be vague as i can be in this book we have characters experiencing things that like i would love to

[00:56:11] happen to me like i'd love to go through a gingerbread house even if i got stuck there um they're find themselves in the pages of books yeah a book yeah these situations aren't ideal though in the moment did you know going in that you wanted to turn like these fairy tale moments and ideas like on their heads into something where it's like oh maybe i actually don't want that like maybe i don't want that to happen yeah i think that this is the pipeline of my life actually because what one of

[00:56:41] the projects that like got me into writing in school the first was titanic journal entry in third grade crazy that's a crazy assignment i digress um in fourth grade we read a book about i i think i've told this story before but i'll tell it quickly again the big bad wolf it's a children's story where he's not actually evil he's just trying he's just has a cold and he keeps sneezing and blowing their

[00:57:07] houses down by accident and i was like i was like nine hearing this going oh my my client is innocent your honor and i would like this is i was like this is so messed up because i'd been told these stories forever and it was the first time i'd heard it a different perspective of it and i was like hey how do we know everything's not like this it's it's i'm confused and so our assignment was to write

[00:57:33] from a villain's point of view and turn a fairy tale on its head and i think because i grew up with so many fairy tales i i really like the idea of pulling those familiar elements in but also introducing kind of a aspect to it that you're like this isn't fun anymore mom it's a little bit of a metaphor to adulthood a little bit but also that like you could still find the magic you have to look for it and that's what you have to learn as an adult like finding magic as a kid is uh

[00:58:03] depending obviously depending on the kid but most of the time it's easier as a kid as opposed to an adult so it's like you have to refine the magic as a grown-up yeah i love that yeah so i know that in the past you've always said i think you've always said for each book that evie is your favorite character to write and i and which is understandable but is there anybody this book that surprised you

[00:58:27] like kind of maybe could have it overtaken evie as your favorite person to write oh um i don't know i don't think so i loved getting into tatiana's head just because tatiana is it was so easy to write because i'm like she is exactly who she is like she is and she is proud of it as she should be um she is one of my favorite characters i've ever written um just because she's i don't know she's

[00:58:56] she's truly just everything i like about a strong female character that she's like really girly um but she's also like got such strength and talent and what she does but she like the pink the pink really gets me i've been wearing more pink and i feel like that's such a good thing to talk about because there's pink on this book um and i just think uh i really liked getting into her head that was fun i loved writing scenes for her and claire in this book that was a lot of fun for me

[00:59:23] because they've been a build-up um but yeah i think evie evie's always my stasis so she's it's not even that she's my favorite it's that she's like my home base so when i'm when i'm feeling like a drift in a draft i i tend to teeter back towards her and and find my way back again to like whatever i was trying to accomplish in the point in the plot um so no no overtaking favorites but i think

[00:59:50] i think just enjoying like yeah being in different heads faces you get to be in so many of them too yeah yeah and they're all so different and that's i think that's why it's fun because they're all so distinctly different in the way that they think they really are but they come together so perfectly too i love the scenes of all them together those are my favorite group they're just they're all chaos and they're all annoyed and like love each other so much but they're all so irritated

[01:00:17] they're like you drive me crazy i like actually you're pressing every button i have and i want to kill you but also i would kill anyone that tried to kill you so yeah i'm in a weird place and if i killed you i would miss you and i can't so i can't do it yes yeah yeah there was a lot of times that tristan is threatening murder in this book is just so oh my god he is truly crashing out like

[01:00:40] this is his crash out book like for sure because he's just i think he's trying to like do the emotions thing in this book which was really interesting for his character because it was such a growth point because in book one he's like feelings no no no no no no and he's going gradually comfortable with them with each book but he's kind of made this conscious decision that he's going to actively really try to get over it and to you know connect with people more because in his head he's like if

[01:01:09] i connect with the people around me more i probably will connect with evie better too in turn and also i don't hate these people i kind of like that they're here as painful as that is to admit but like it is quite painful for him yeah but like the scene with him and blade towards the beginning of the book where they're discussing you know relationship stuff that was so fun for me i was

[01:01:33] like this is so great oh my god the corset society talks too ah yes i cannot chapter six it was so good oh yeah chapter six never forget chapter six it was it's key it's key um yeah it's it's oh god oh god it was it was so funny because i remember when i went in to write this book i was like what would he do if he was trying to win her and those were questions i asked myself to come up with like

[01:02:03] where certain plot scenes would go and i was like oh no he'd be like he he's an all or nothing kind of dude so he'd be like i have to i'm gonna do the logical thing which is she likes these books so much because she likes the romance in them i'm trying to romance her i'm gonna read one of these books and i'm gonna figure it out but he ends up getting like too invested and i just think that that's like every man watching reality television like it's my husband he's literally on the way to mississippi

[01:02:31] right now listening to shatter me that like he's like he's like nine books in yeah he's like how it goes they're like they're not interested until they're like wait they're all in how did i read this many books yeah and i think that just like he's such a logical character like he is such a logic driven person and he kind of uses that to flood out his emotion whole state and that's why it's like makes sense to it made so much sense to me that he'd be

[01:02:59] defensive of these books because he's like there's no logical reason to be saying anything negative about these books it's illogical to to be saying negative things about them it's almost like it's societally built in and that's not something he has programmed in because he just like didn't get so he's like that's dumb yeah you guys are weird yeah why are these a joke i was so excited men being

[01:03:26] nice to women every five seconds being nice to partners thing ever yeah he he go that boy loves a romance book now like he's he's sold it's my favorite it's the best i want to be in a book club with him i know that would be interesting i know i was on another podcast and they asked me what their book club book would be and i was like i think it would be like unhinged or the book with the door

[01:03:51] i feel like that's what evie would pick because she'd be like testing to see how far she yes and he probably would look at it so analytically they would he would come with a thesis statement to the book club and and and facts and resources dissertation on a powerpoint yes even yeah i think these are all the underlying themes that the author was trying to get at yeah when actually he took it

[01:04:15] so seriously so seriously and it would be so funny about him yes even when he's baby girl he's going all in yes my boy my boy okay well we obviously want to keep you forever but we promised that we wouldn't be it so let's get into the like random questions we always ask okay um fictional boyfriend of the week

[01:04:39] we always you know we have fictional granny fictional son fictional boyfriends whatever i think i'm gonna have to go with and by the time this comes out this will be public so it's okay but i have to go with patrick colson uh from a forbidden alchemy i am now a forsaken prophecy i we just found out too that stacy at the new york times i was like yeah but it's not the list isn't out yet so i think it

[01:05:05] comes out like right now but by the time this is that that will be public knowledge yeah but yeah i think that that was the most recent book i read i read it i wanted to be like fresh on the brain for when i moderated for her so i read it i read the first one on the plane back from spain and i would not let my parents talk to me i i would not let anyone talk to me i read it through the entire flight seven hours straight and i finished it on the flight and i when we landed i was like

[01:05:32] i don't want to be friends with her anymore i just i literally just finished it today it's uh what a forsaken prophecy or forbidden alchemy alchemy the first one girl i know you know what though i don't feel bad for you because you don't have to wait for the next one yes i don't wait i don't wait yeah but now i'm gonna have to wait for book three it was a horror yeah which is probably gonna be hard i'm suffering um i'm going i'm going to australia

[01:05:59] for her birthday in february and i'm half planning to steal it off her computer if i can do it um if it's possible but yeah patrick colson he's just oh god i love he's so perfectly morally gray because his decisions you can defend them because they actually make sense and they're morally balanced like he's such a but he's also like such an interesting like take charge character and he's

[01:06:25] so handsome and so patrick colson is my answer he's so handsome that's a good one i love him it's a very good one oh i love him he's hubba hubba he's great he's great all right well i mean the kind of answers this next question which is like what are you reading what are you recommending anything oh always have always uh forbidden alchemy and a forsaken prophecy now um they were

[01:06:49] truly the books that tested me and stacy's friendship um everyone she was like you're biased and i was like no i don't like you after reading them it's not a biased thing like i genuinely like you less after i read them tested or like yeah our friendship has changed we're all deeply unhappy um no but i'm actually getting to read um an early copy of um the magical cheese emporium um by sarah beth durst um i'm very excited about it uh especially because the title is has cheese

[01:07:19] and i love cheese also i love sarah beth durst i think she's wonderful so i'm really excited and um yeah so that's my next that's next on my list very nice yeah all right last but not least what comes next next i'm working on book five i literally was writing right before i got on with you guys i'm having such a good time like without spoiling anything it's it i feel like i'm writing book one

[01:07:45] again in the best way possible it's just been like truly such i think i earned book five with book four because book four has a lot of emotional up and downs and book five will too in a sense but book five is a lot of adventure and fun and laughing like i've been non-stop laughing um just in the first few chapters because it's so silly but enjoyable so i'm i'm really excited about book five i feel

[01:08:12] like if it's anything like the last last couple of chapters of this which are objectively hilarious thank you um it's gonna be a good time i mean those for me because i was like i can't just have it this i need i need i need to give everyone and myself a taste of what we're in for i i and the vibes that were definitely my feelings were hurt a little bit but the the vibes of

[01:08:35] those last few chapters definitely i've got like 40 pages left you like it it's good yeah i think i'm i'm really excited it's the last book in the series so it's a little melancholy but it's it's honestly it's invigorating i feel way better like i feel more happy than sad which is i'm

[01:09:05] relieved because i thought i was going to go into it and be like an emotional turmoil yeah so this is good what what comes after villain though like do you have any ideas what such questions you ask um i just summoned samantha for and she just came out of my body i felt like i do that in every given scenario you ask such questions um yeah she literally just possessed me for a second sorry sam i'll talk to

[01:09:30] you later um yeah uh i definitely i have several things planned um concretely after um so i know exactly what i'm going into after book five that's why i think i'm trucking with book five because i'm so excited for what comes after book five um both things that come after book five i'm super stoked about so it's gonna be good i'm i'm i'm very very excited so that's all i can say so we have more more years with you because you know our law that you have to come back once a year well and also like

[01:10:00] we've released every book with you like it's tradition at this it's tradition it's tradition we just that's why when the when we had a conflict yesterday i was like please please make sure you reschedule soon quickly yeah we were like no because i was like please tell them i want to do i want to do we have to do it it's the rules it's part of my ritual before it's part of the book release yeah it's so important oh hey miss mandy when when does your

[01:10:29] next book come out i don't have a date yet i'm still working on it and she's being really mean it's you know what i don't go out listen i'm writing book five right now i could hurt you in ways you don't understand look i had lost two dogs and my grandma since i released this last one so there's a lot of pain so there's a lot of pain in book two i'm processing through book two i was

[01:10:52] like i'm gonna just go see myself out i was like oh you know what wait but i mean you need to send her to feel immediate shame like what you've already sent me because that was that was mean at the end of book one you need to at least send her you muted yourself again i don't know how i keep doing this does it do buttons on the top there's buttons somewhere those are touch they're not button button

[01:11:20] you're on lights are it's like oh touch that's actually touch what oh my god you just saved me because i couldn't figure out why the sound kept going out i was like what am i doing wrong and everyone's like you're muting yourself you're muting yourself and i'm like oh my god it's because i keep touching the light like a little like kid i'm like i'm like a late i'm like a freaking bug i'm like

[01:11:49] okay well anyways what i was saying was mandy you need to send her like what did you send me the first chapter i can do that yeah a little a little teaser i think you should a little hope i think i think you have it's not it's not great hope there's no because there's there's just it's so touch sensitive like it's crazy it really is that's why i had to get this thing

[01:12:15] because that way i can't touch it you can't touch it yeah anytime i would try to move it that's so smart i always do these interviews on my couch so it's like not as easy to like i don't even know where i'd put that you know yeah oh wait you i don't know i'm thinking too hard about this the adhd i didn't take my outer world today i'm like i'm ping-ponging

[01:12:39] oopsies oh my goodness oh well all right well i'll let you know though and i'm hopefully gonna get to middleton to sign it for me oh my god please keep me posted please keep me posted i i told mandy like i you you can't not try because otherwise like she's she's gonna be she's not the outgoing one when we're in a group she'll like just be kind of be like you know hey if you can't i'll be like hey your face is in this book i won't want to like i won't want to like elbow

[01:13:08] somebody's stage door to get to the front like i'm gonna try to like i think you must i think you must somebody somebody just put my book next to daniel rodcliffe at the stage door and i wigged out i was like how do you not die radcliffe i loved it that's crazy i know i was freaking out but all they did was hold my book up next to his face and i was like still they've been in the same in the

[01:13:32] vicinity vicinity yeah it's crazy oh my god hey love that how do you think i feel about the fact that you have held my book slash read my book that's crazy for me but it's me i know it's also you we play when i go in bookstores like we play what my favorite game where i'm like oh i you know i've interviewed that person i've interviewed and now i'm like she's read my book yeah that's i have i have

[01:14:01] it hurt my feelings but i really loved it but it hurt my feelings book two is gonna hurt him even more why i don't know i'm just processing a lot i'm such a hypocrite but like i'm like you monster she introduces a whole new character hannah what like a love interest what what for who

[01:14:26] and it hurts hannah there might be a love triangle it hurts so much what god damn it she's really my nieces are already like i refuse i don't care who it is and what they do i don't know i won't be switching teams unfortunately i won't be switching teams but i'm i'm i am locked in i am ready i'm buckled up you guys are gonna make me go like i'm gonna go right the rest of the you should

[01:14:53] go right i'll go right too after dinner i'm i'm gonna go meet stacy mckeon yeah go go tell her all right well we have to plug the book so everybody go pick up your copy of adversary to the villain it's so good we love it we love it of course we do we love you thank you so much for always being game for this oh my god thank you for always inviting me back even though i like

[01:15:22] never shut up never leave us kind i don't want you to ever shut up never ever leave us things things i've never heard for a hundred hours literally never shut up the fangirls don't want me to shut up actually so yeah yeah so i can't it's take it up it's actually long yeah we'll fight on your behalf it's fine lovely send them to my dms i'll handle it get behind you guys

[01:15:48] so much it was so much fun thank you enjoy the rest of your evening go right mandy and go blow kisses at stacy k i will enjoy your dinner prosper i shall i shall thank you all right bye bye i love her i love her so so much so much i just i cannot i like she is like there are like i love all of our authors that we've been on but like there is something so special about hannah

[01:16:15] yeah i feel like we it's weird to say because we were all adults but i feel like we've grown up we've grown up together yeah yeah like because we we we were a baby podcast and she was a debut author she was a yeah and and we grew up together every time she comes back i just like i want to cry

[01:16:37] but like happy tears yeah it's like coming home yeah yeah i love her so much so much i fear that the world actually cannot handle the three of us in the same place at the same time manifesting that it's gonna but it's gonna happen watch out or else yeah oh my gosh i'm excited for the announcement

[01:17:02] we haven't done one of these in a while and i'm so excited it's gonna be so much fun okay so next week we have a very special episode um i will say if you haven't watched spider-man brand new day by the next time the next episode comes out you might want to just skip us wait wait for a bit because there will be spoilers unfortunately basically gonna be a spoiler episode we're not gonna be a full

[01:17:26] spoiler we're not doing this weekend fangirling my fictional boyfriend is aaron warner we are bringing back our friend jason b dutton we're going to spend the entire episode talking spider-man brand new day all things marvel whatever else comes up doomsday theories oh my gosh yeah i'm scared i'm scared i'm scared mom come get me i'm scared i'm scared uh i've seen i've seen a theory

[01:17:56] recently about spider-man brand new day and i don't like it and it makes me sad oh are you talking about zendaya's dresses because that one scares me that's so scary that's so they said it's like something happens that never that has never happened in a spider-man film and okay well that has happened like that has happened so that gives me a little bit of hope yeah that's what i tell

[01:18:21] myself to be able to sleep at night but my fear is it's going to be the other one then i don't want that and i don't want that either because i love i'm scared so next week we if you have watched spider-man brand new day and you need to work out your feels we'll be here for you yeah we'll be there so with jason with jason oh i'm so excited i'm so excited it's always a good time we're gonna yap so

[01:18:49] hard very good yay and now it is time for the spiel correct yes yes all right we're good at this okay if you enjoyed this episode please like follow and subscribe wherever you are listening to us follow us on social media we are at the incoherent fangirl on all the things visit our website the incoherent fangirl.com where you can also stream all of our episodes as well as read our blog

[01:19:16] subscribe to our patreon for early access to podcast episodes full video episodes bonus content and the opportunity to ask questions of our guests because that's always fun i love seeing people's questions like anytime i go to a like a tour stop or something people have such good questions and i'm like yes i would like to know that thank you very much if you're in the mood for some merch you can visit our merch store the incoherent fangirl.com slash shop to grab some cute stuff because sometimes

[01:19:42] mandy gets bored with an ipad and we all reap the benefits of that if you have any comments questions concerns suggestions design ideas you want to tell us we're pretty we will accept all that in your inbox in our inbox not in your inbox don't send it to yourself send it to us weird be incoherent fangirl at gmail.com you know we love hearing from y'all and of course one last way to support the podcast is to rate and review on whatever platform you're listening to us on please give us your

[01:20:11] words we love words here words all the words um she is at mandy perv on all the things she's at miss made in china on all the things and once you followed us on social media and you follow the podcast on social media you can head over and visit our internet besties and do some self-care because we love you and we want you to stick around forever okay always so first stop you're going to visit our friends at here comes the nerd at here comes the nerd.com get you some pins and

[01:20:36] artsy goodies you're going to use code fangirl and get 20 off your first order then you're going to head to once upon a book club.com um you're going to order the bookmas box that yours truly is in um you're going to subscribe do whatever you want uh get some standalone goodies that they have um and you're going to use code karen10 to get 10 off but you have to spell karen right or

[01:21:01] we're going to make you watch every single terrible possible outcome of spider-man that there could be on a loop repeatedly forever oh rip to you so spell karen right please because that hurt me just hearing about it just thinking about it not good somebody else who likes to rip out our heart amber d lewis you're going to visit her website at amber d lewis.com and add 10 of everything to your cart

[01:21:27] use code fangirl 10 and you'll get 10 off of the 10 of everything which means you've gotten one of everything for free mathematically speaking you're welcome you're welcome um and last but not least you can support my family um you can follow the show husband he's at born of josh on all the thanks um you can follow at searchers believe that's his paranormal investigation group if you go to searchers believe.com slash shop you can use code fangirl 10 to get 10 off of more merch designed by

[01:21:57] yours truly um we have a savannah event that's first it's up on the searchers page that the code will work on um where i think they're going to be doing some ghost hunting i'm not going to do that but i'll be there for like dinner you'll be doing some writing yeah i'll be writing on spooky ground um you can follow at searchers podcast maybe one day we'll get back to it but there's fun stuff there

[01:22:26] um and then the big one is beacon tv so you can follow at stream beacon tv on all the things it's our streaming platform that is paranormal horror true crime um all the spooky stuff we've got our show with amy bruni that's been announced um that will be airing this fall they're about to start filming paranormal mystery season two also coming this fall a lot of exciting things they just

[01:22:53] passed 10 000 subscribers which is huge that's been the goal all along so obviously now we're bumping the goal up um but really exciting things are happening over there um if you'd like to subscribe you can go to stream beacon tv.com and use code fangirl 10 to get 10 off of your subscription and then last but not least as you heard hannah mccolmerer talking about i wrote a book it's called

[01:23:20] the living and the dead it's about a girl who was born a ghost but ages like the living and the reaper who would die to get her to look at him um i'm on all of the major retailers websites but if you'd like a signed copy you can go to my website aepurpose.com and use code aaron warner to get 10 off because it wouldn't be me if i didn't make something about aaron warner them's the rules that's that's who i am

[01:23:48] i'm not gonna otherwise she's been body snatched i've been body snatched all right and that was was the incoherent fangirl thanks for listening we love you bye we are sponsored by our friends at here comes the nerd pins stickers magnets and more here comes the nerd has happy art for all fandom loving hearts new customers can use coupon code

[01:24:14] fangirl during checkout for 20 off their first order at here comes the nerd.com coupon applies to ready to ship items only