Discovering Who You Are Between the Lines

[00:00:00] Your face was just frozen and so I was like, is she deep in thought of what she's doing or is she frozen? Both. Why choose? Welcome to the Incoherent Fangirl. Where we are both grieving a little bit because the children in our house have milestone birthdays in the next with all within the next four days. You are so mean.

[00:00:28] It's true though. It is, it's true. It's the worst. I don't like it. I've spent all day trying not to cry because I put their birthday gifts together today and I don't even want to think about it. I am a very sad Karen from the not so sad Pink Pony, Pink Unicorn. Sorry, I'm... Pink Pony Club! You know what? That song is all that I think about when I hear the Pink Unicorn. Yeah. Perfect.

[00:00:58] I'm also a sad Mandy and I'm from Stanford University. Oh, look at you smarty. I know. Look at me go. In our timeline, it is Galentine's Day, February 13th. Yay! I've got my cup for Pink Pony! I'm in pink. I put my dog in, my dog has this little like pink puffer coat with like red hearts on it. It's very cute. Oh.

[00:01:29] Oh. I'll see if I can grab a picture. And in y'all's timeline, it is February 21st. And... February's trucking along! It is. It's going... It's much faster than January. January was an eleventy billion years. Yeah. In case you're wondering, I am indeed sick. It's been a weird fun week trying not to die. Bless your heart. And I will explain why that is shortly. Bless your heart.

[00:02:01] This week in fangirling, Mandy, what'd you do? I did not do a lot. So I had like Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I had things to do with my niece and or nephew or both. So we had a little birthday dinner for my baby niece and her big brother, my now 17 year old nephew. And then they, the littles came back with me to my house to go, so my sister could go to a comedy show. So they were here for a few hours, went to sleep because

[00:02:29] they, I mean, they got back late, but it wasn't like, I'm not complaining late or anything. Get up the next morning and I went down to her house to help my baby niece get ready for her father-daughter dance that day. And then my sister and I kind of went out and about with the baby while she and her dad were at the father-daughter dance. And then Sunday, what did we do Sunday? Oh, we went and had lunch with my grandmother on Sunday with them. So I was full on Mimi mode all weekend.

[00:02:57] Yeah. I didn't get a lot of time to read though, but I did finish Deep End by Allie Hazelwood. So I'm just going to recap it because I'm not going to tell you anything that happened in the end. So we have Vandy and Lucas. Vandy is her last name is VanderMeer and everybody calls her Vandy. They're both at Stanford. They're both athletes. She is a diver and he's a swimmer. And he is like, the Olympics are watching you level swimmer. He is like world renowned. They have nothing in common

[00:03:24] other than pools until they're at a party. And Vandy's friend who is also Lucas's ex blurts out that they have the same sexual interests and that they should get together. And they are both like, well, Lucas is like, okay. And Vandy is like, I don't know about all that. That's awkward. That's my friend. Blah, blah, blah. Well, then they end up in a study with Olive from the love hypothesis.

[00:03:51] And so they're forced together a little bit. And can they fight this feeling? Probably not. It's an Allie Hazelwood book. Of course they don't. It was good. I liked it. I listened to it like while working out because like I said, it was an audio book. It was good. It was an Allie Hazelwood book. I'm not gonna not like those. Right. I finished You Are Fatally Invited by Andy Pliego, which we talked about in great detail last week. I read You Between the Lines by Katie Naiman. More on that

[00:04:19] later. And then I started The Half King by Melissa Landers. But I'm only like two chapters in. So I don't know what the plot is. So I really can't tell you what the plot is. That's fair. That's fair. My husband is out of town this week. He comes back tomorrow. So I have been like, when I'm home alone, I can't rot until like everything is done. And nothing's been done a lot lately. So I've been

[00:04:46] like doing all the laundry and deep cleaning this. And so I've just been listening to audio books and existing. So that was my week. Really exciting week. What did you do this week? I did a few things. I have no notes. So this is gonna be real interesting on how we get through this. I did an alpha read of The Living and the Dead by A.E. Purvis, aka Mandy. So Mandy has talked about it. I don't know if I need to give y'all all the details again.

[00:05:16] But we've got Abby who was born a ghost and is basically trying to live in secret in a way because her mom is like, this doesn't happen. Born ghosts don't exist. You're the only one. And she's afraid that if people find out that something's gonna happen to her because people don't like people or things that are different. Now, Abby is an adult and she meets a medium who we love

[00:05:43] and who becomes her like very best friend very quickly. And Abby gets to, you know, move in and be a part of her life. And there's a lot of found family happening in this book. And as Abby is just trying to kind of live her life and, you know, her best life in secret as much as she can, she unfortunately attracts the attention of the Brotherhood of Reapers, specifically Red and Pengrave, who, hello, we love Ryden.

[00:06:13] Um, who, how do I explain this without getting too spoilery? Ryden is sent to get Abby. And things do not go in accordance with the reason why he isn't there. And Abby thinks it's for one reason and he knows it's for a different reason. And so they end up kind of forced proximity on this adventure together because he

[00:06:39] says things to her that she's like, well, I have to go with you or else redacted things will happen. Redacted things will happen and I can't let that happen. And so there's lots of forced proximity. There is found family. There is enemies to lovers. There is the love of my life. I just, it's great. It's so funny to me because we all know I'm an Aaron Warner girly, right? And so I'm a Ryden girly.

[00:07:08] Like I love Jolly, which is who you're talking about. Yes. But when you and Brandy both read Shatter Me, y'all were both like, it's Kenji. Who cares about Aaron? It's Kenji. It's Kenji Kishimoto. Like what is happening when y'all both read the living and the dead? Y'all were both of your notes were like Jolly. Yeah. I wrote in my notes. I wrote in my notes. I'm like, okay, listen, I know it's, it's Ryden is Aaron, but Jolly is Kenji and we know I'm a Kenji girly. So that's where,

[00:07:35] that's where we have so many notes in the Google doc. They were just like LOML. Yeah. I am an excellent note taker guys. Yes, you are. Oh, I was saying that very like, I'm not at all. No, you are. I was like, there were, there were some, there were some points where I was serious. A lot of it was just like, that's funny. OMG, I'm dying. Yeah. So that, so that's the loving and the

[00:08:04] dead, which is book one and the ending Miss Mandy. You know, I, it's mean, but it's also like, it's Mandy. So what else could I expect? Like, and I was asleep. So you couldn't, I know. I know. I was like, Mandy had the audacity to be asleep when I finished her book for the first time. And this might actually be what breaks us up. This might be it. Sorry.

[00:08:33] The audacity. When the prime meridian, not me. To be asleep at midnight. How dare she? I'm gone. So that was my big thing for the week. Oh my God. That was at like the very beginning. Cause I was like so close at the end when we were recording last week. Yeah. And like, I had like 18% left when we recorded last week. So that was very early in my week. It was good. I read get even by Jade church. I'm not a hundred percent sure this book has a plot

[00:09:01] other than it's a romance novel. I was, I was, I, it's not bad. Like the writing's fine. It's, you know, it's like a very average three star read. It's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing problematic. It exists. It's fine. And I'm sure there are readers out there who would love it. I just wasn't one of those readers. I found this book because I was scrolling threads and the author posted something hilarious. Like, Oh my gosh, I just read the worst book

[00:09:28] ever. And it opens with a revenge threesome on the first page. And I was like, well, that's how you sell me on a book. Yeah. That's, that's how you sell me on a book. So I immediately borrowed it from Kindle Unlimited. I read it. It was fine. It was nothing to write home about. I, there is definitely there. It does open on a revenge threesome. It does indeed, which was hilarious. But yeah, some of the characters I was just like, you're awful human beings.

[00:09:56] Why do you exist even in like an imaginary state? I hate this. But you know, the characters that you're supposed to like are lovely, but I don't know for me, it didn't feel like there was like romance novels. You know, there's going to be the inciting incident that gets these people into each other's lives. And then there's going to be that journey of will they, won't they? And then there's going to be that third act like tension. Are they going to make it? Right. And, and usually there's like an external conflict to that too, right? That's pushing

[00:10:24] either them together or apart. And I just feel like it didn't quite have that. It was all very unrelated. I felt like, like the reasons why she went off and did this didn't feel connected to everything else. So right, but it was fine. There was nothing problematic about it. I you know, it does what it does. I read the Starlight Air by Amelie Howard, which is her first romance

[00:10:48] to see novel. And it I think is the beginning of a trilogy. I want to say maybe it's I think I know it's the start of a series. I don't know for sure if it's a trilogy. But I know it's the first book in a series. I don't remember the plot. There is a plot. I really enjoyed it. But again, I'm sick guys. Things are hard right now in my brain and I don't have notes. I it was real I really enjoyed it. I remember really enjoying it when I was listening to it.

[00:11:16] It's really a fun departure for her because Amelie Howard, I know her from historical romance and which she does excellent. She's amazing at historical romance, both YA and adult. And so this is like her foray into I don't know if she's done like other fantasy before. I know this is her first romance to see. And I just I thought it was really lovely. I could read you the story graph page, but I also have many other things to talk about. So we're gonna just I'm

[00:11:45] just gonna tell you to go look it up because I think it's worth it. Also, the cover is really beautiful. Saturday, I'm only on Saturday. Saturday, I volunteered with Linda and Tree. Um, I got it. I got a text from Grace that asked if I could help out with this event on Saturday, which was an event with Dave Pilkey, who is the creator of Captain Underpants and Dogman,

[00:12:10] among other things. And it was it the location was at our downtown San Jose where I live. So it was very convenient for me at our Center for Performing Arts. There were 2500 tickets sold. So it was insane. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you told me that. But whoa, that's still so it was like a full like, this is the theater where I saw Hamilton. Okay, and it was packed. Oh, it was full.

[00:12:36] Okay. So this is Yeah, so it was a big deal. But it was so much fun. We did a lot of like, obviously set up and things to make everything move as smoothly as possible. Everybody, no matter like everybody and you know, it was it would have been really easy for people to get frustrated because there were so many people because there were long lines for things and all of that. Everybody was very lovely. I had one man man book people. And one man that was like a little like frustrated and

[00:13:05] aggravated. And I get that he was he came up and he was just very aggressively was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Where am I going? Nobody's told me anything. And I'm like, here's all the info. And so it was it was fun. It was a good time. I definitely used my preschool teacher voice a lot. I also there was a lot of yelling because I had to manage the meet and greet line, which was there

[00:13:29] were three levels at the center. And so the line wraps around going up to all three levels because it was long. And we did it in groups of 500. So it was like if you have a blue wristband, you're you're in group one. So now it's time for you to line up. So I would go up and down this line so many steps on this day, go up and down this line, just like reminding people you have to have a blue wristband. Otherwise, you're in the wrong line. You're here to see Dave Pilkey, not dog man.

[00:13:56] Otherwise, you're in the wrong line. Because we did have a person in a dog man suit come out. It was actually they hired not Linda tree, but like Pilkey's people hired the person who is the mascot for the San Francisco Giants, which it's a professional mascot, very cute. And so I just went up and down the line just yelling all these things. And it was like everybody was very pleasant. It was, you know, we were doors opened at two, we were still letting people in at three, like people

[00:14:26] to pick up their books and get their wristbands and get seated at three, which was when the presentation was supposed to start. And we had hoped to be out by six after getting everybody through the meet and greet line. I think it was a little bit after that. But once we got through the first group, everything moved much quicker because everybody knew how it was going. So yeah, it was a good time. But I definitely if I didn't lose my voice, then I definitely lost

[00:14:49] it the next day on Sunday, watching the Super Bowl. Yeah. So first of all, I only yelled with Kendrick. Kendrick, that performance was excellent. But for those of you who don't know, I haven't been a Philadelphia Eagles fan since 2009. And in that time, and in the entirety of their existence, they have won one Super Bowl. So this was a big deal. Also, it was against

[00:15:16] the Kansas City Chiefs, who I am personally very mad at right now. So it was very lovely to be able to yell and scream and cheer for my team. And also, I apparently know the fight song much better than I thought I did. I just said nothing. I wanted nothing more for Patrick Mahomes because he's got the most slappable face I've ever seen. I it's funny because a couple days before the Super Bowl, my daughter was like,

[00:15:44] Mommy, are the Chiefs in the Super Bowl again? And I was like, yeah. And I knew she was about to be like, oh, yay, excited because of Travis Kelsey. It's Taylor's boyfriend. And before she could say anything, I was like, Travis Kelsey said it would be an honor to play in front of the president. And she her face, she was just like, never mind. So yeah. What? Our neighborhood dog just started screaming outside. Oh, but it sounds like he's okay. It sounds like he was just chasing something and not like hurt.

[00:16:13] Okay, that's good. It just took me off guard for a second. I am so sorry. No, it's okay. Red man. I was like, yes, that is the face she made. So a combination of being around in close proximity to 2,500 people plus volunteers and staff and screaming and yelling at the Super Bowl. I lost my voice and got sick, obviously. And we're still there now. So it's going really great for me. But I do have a couple more things that I did

[00:16:43] read because, again, back in the office, so more audio books are happening. I read two books by Cleo White, Chilled and Thrilled and Kissed and Missed. They are both part of her Daddy Issues series. They're short novellas. The Chilled and Thrilled, the first one is a forbidden romance between a girl and her best friend's dad. And so that's fun. And then the second one is a obviously age gap as well.

[00:17:10] And the second one is, again, an age gap romance because, duh, the Daddy Issues explains everything between a girl and her ex-girlfriend's dad. The ex-girlfriend cheated on her. And she found out as she was in the car heading to her dad's house for them to spend Thanksgiving or Christmas together. So she was in the car going to her girlfriend's dad's house so that her and her girlfriend could

[00:17:36] spend Christmas together with her dad. And on the way there, the girl that her girlfriend was cheating on her with was like, hey, texted her and was like, hey, FYI, this is what's going on. I've already broken up with her. Here are all the receipts. And so when she arrives at the house, she has just dumped her girlfriend but is now staying for several days over the holidays with her ex-girlfriend's dad. And apparently that was enough for them to feel attraction and all of that.

[00:18:03] And this is, he is a billionaire. However, he has decided that he is going to step away from his tech businesses and all of the money that he has made and will continue to make from that business is now being funneled into a nonprofit that he is starting that is going to distribute funds to smaller nonprofits for them to do good work. So I was going to say you'd lose me at billionaire. I was like, hold on. That's the most unbelievable shit I ever heard. Hold on, here we are. Here we

[00:18:30] are. I was like, here is a billionaire romance I know you can get behind because he is taking that money and putting it where it needs to go. Either donating it somewhere or we're eating his liver. Yes. That's the only two options. So they're fun, quick little novellas. And you know, it's, it's a romance novel. They're again, pretty solid, like not high stakes, just kind of fluffy fun. If you need something quick to get you through. I finished the ugly series by Scott Westerfeld,

[00:18:58] with the book extras, which takes place after the end of the first three books after Tally's story, it follows a completely different character. We do get appearances from Tally and some of her friends. And it's just kind of like in a post everybody is fixed kind of world. Like what does that look like? The only, I enjoyed it. The only thing I thought was weird was that I, I don't, I mean,

[00:19:23] I don't know for sure. Scott Westerfeld sounds like a white man name. Why is a white man writing a Japanese main character and setting it in Japan? That was, I mean, that's, and the weird, the weirdest part about it is like, you don't really realize it until like midway into the book that like, oh, this is a completely like, not, not just a different character group that we're following, but like a different locale completely. This is a white, white, white, white, white,

[00:19:50] white, white dude. Yeah. I just Googled him. I was like, it sounds like a white dude name, but yeah. I mean, like, I don't know. It was, that was a little weird for me, but it was fine. It was, you know, there was plenty of plot that went along with the first three books in the series. And it was fun to see kind of Tally and co like grown up a little bit for parts of it. So that was fun. I read the son of Neptune by Rick Riordan, which is the second book in the, is it heroes of Olympus

[00:20:19] series? I think it's heroes of Olympus. Yeah. So in the first book, we follow Jason, who is the son of one of the Roman gods, and he has lost his memory and ends up at camp half led, which is camp for the Greek gods children. Well, in son of Neptune, we have Percy Jackson who has lost his memories and ends up at the camp for the Roman gods children. And they have to eventually come

[00:20:48] together and figure out, okay, there's this prophecy that's going to need both camps to kind of work together. It's Rick Riordan. It's, I mean, what else do I say? Not for the Faint of Heart by Lex Croucher is kind of a like Robin Hood, Maid Marian-esque followup, I guess, because it follows like the children slash grandchildren of Robin Hood and Maid Marian. And so you've got, I don't remember the characters names, I don't have notes, but you've got health, uh, what, what, what's a healer?

[00:21:18] I was like, what's the word? A healer. A health person. Um, a healer who gets kidnapped by the merry men and is very confused because she's always looked up to them and is like, why are they kidnapping me? Oh, they must meet my healing abilities. No, JK, they're just kidnapping me. And so it goes on this adventure of trying to figure out what happened to the merry men and why are they

[00:21:41] like this now? And it's sapphic and it's lovely. I reread Karaoke Queen by Dominic Lim because I'm going to be in conversation with him tonight immediately after we finish recording here. Um, so that's fun. Obviously it's a romance novel by Dominic Lim. It follows a drag queen who, hey, maybe I can have a second chance with my ex-boyfriend. Hmm, there's this other guy. Maybe I like him instead. It's a romance novel, but it's also about like self-love and the love you feel

[00:22:09] from your family, uh, biological or found. And it's amazing. It's perfection. Um, Manila Luzon does the audio book. So a certified wonderful drag queen is reading. Um, so it's awesome. And I read You Between the Lines by Katie Naiman, which we will talk about shortly. And that was my week. Did I do okay? Yeah. I was like, I don't know if any of this makes sense, but here we are. You had a full week. Yeah. Even while slowly feeling like death.

[00:22:44] Announcements. No. Fictional boyfriend. My brain is not functioning. Do you have a fictional boyfriend this week? I, um, I wrote down two and I also have a couple of fictional besties. Jolly, the love of my life and the living and the dead. I've already said it before. I, this man, I love him. He's like the biggest cinnamon roll teddy bear. Listen, if you thought I was mad at you before, if anything happens to this man,

[00:23:11] we will break up. I fear I have to guarantee that nothing. I promise you if anything happens to this man, we will break up. I don't know that anybody else is safe, but I know that I know Jolly is going to be safe. Great. I appreciate that. You just, you just, your brain just knows that I, I, he's, he's like a dog. Yeah. He's like a loyal companion. Yes.

[00:23:39] So therefore he has to be safe. Yeah. And also, uh, Will Langford, the man that he is, my God, he is so down bad. He has always been down bad. And it's so clear to everybody except for Lee Simon and I just, but the words from this man, like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There's not a poem that I can write without you in it that I, I, I remember every single conversation we've ever

[00:24:08] had. I, I mean, what? This man, this man, I love this man. So yeah, it will. But also I would like to be besties with, uh, Casey and Jen also from You Between the Lines. Yeah. Um, everybody needs friends like them, especially Jen, who is like, I know that you're attacking me. She's involved in all of it. Yeah. I know that you're attacking me simply because you're hurt and insecure. I'm not

[00:24:37] going to let you do that. I'm not going to let you push you away. Like, no, I know you're hurt right now and you don't mean what you're saying. And like, everybody needs that, especially as high anxiety girlies. I love that she's like states away, but she's still like fully in all of it. She knows and it's not, Oh, we're, we're falling apart. Cause we've, we're not in the same state anymore. We're drifting. No, she's like, she knows. I know you and you and you. Yeah. You had a conversation with her two months ago. I know exactly what happened there.

[00:25:06] Like she is involved and that's the kind of SD that we all need. So yes, those are my fictional people for this week. What about you? I'm going to give, I'll do two. Uh, Will Langford. Yeah. Because I w I was an English major there for several years. Like we love a literary man. Okay. We love a literary man. Yes. And then Lucas, God, why do I always mess up his name? Lucas Blomquist. It's the

[00:25:33] QB. In your defense, it is hard. It is hard. The, the narrator of the audio book did it so well. I, like, I'm not convinced that she didn't like sit there and say it over and over and over again until she had it perfected. I would. Yeah. I would believe that he is a very aware King and he's the same as Jen, where it's like, you are spiraling because of something totally unrelated to me. And I'm not going to let you discount what we have here because you're spiraling because of something

[00:26:02] else that's out of your control. Yeah. Like shitty things have happened to you. They do not define you. And I'm going to be here to put the pieces back together. Like you're not going to scare me off. It's like, it's like a, my love is not fragile situation. I love it. Perfect. Amazing. Yeah. He's like a, uh, uh, Kristoff Dom. That's I see it. I get it. A Swedish, Swedish, Swedish, Kristoff Dom.

[00:26:31] I'm here for it. Yeah. Very nice. That sound means we have an intruder alert. This is a very exciting intruder. Very exciting. All the way from Sweden. We have Katie Naven, author of You Between the Lines. I'm obsessed with this book. I have been obsessed with it since the moment it was

[00:26:54] announced. I forced Katie to be my friend so that we could talk about this. So yay. Yay. So usually, our first thing that we usually do is ask, can you give us like the elevator pitch of the book for anybody who hasn't heard about it yet? Yes. Um, so yeah, so You Between the Lines is about, uh, two high school students who were maybe not on the best terms in high school, who reconnect 10 years later

[00:27:20] at their MFA in poetry program, uh, unbeknownst to either of them that they would both show up. And yeah, so they're in the, they're in the class together and Will, who is the, uh, the love interest of Lee, who's the protagonist. Uh, he can't stop writing about her. And so it's a small cohort and, uh, chaos ensues and, uh, sparks fly both on the page and in real life. So that's kind of the pitch.

[00:27:46] Oh, I love it. So I, um, I peeped your website and found that you're from Ohio. You have a BA in creative writing and an MFA in poetry, which you've got in North Carolina. Yes. How much of this story was self insert and like, which of the characters is like the most you? Oh man. I mean, the thing is, it's so hard for me to say, like, it's not about me at all when it's like, actually, it's like, it's a girl from Cleveland, North Carolina poetry. Like it's,

[00:28:15] she was a copywriter, which I, that's also my day job. So it's like, I, I have a hard time like convincing my, my mother that I did not write a romance novel about myself, but truly like, it's not quite about me, but I unfortunately do relate to Lee quite a bit. You know, I feel like we have key differences, but I feel like I, that's a character I knew really well. And I think that's, there's like a lot of, we share DNA. Um, but yeah, I think for like the whole cohort,

[00:28:42] all the entire extended cast, a lot of them are, um, blends of like actual classmates I had when I was at the program. So fun for when they read, if there's like a lot of Easter eggs, I feel like for like the, uh, the people who know me in real life. And so I, I'm curious to see what they think, but yeah. I love a good Easter egg. It's like being an inside joke. That's fine.

[00:29:06] Exactly. Um, so this, Lee goes through one of the things that I think is my favorite part about the book is she has like on the page therapy sessions, which we don't get to see a lot in, um, books in general, you know, romance in particular as well. Um, what was, what was the thought process of including that into, because it is such a big part of who she is and, um, but what, where did you come

[00:29:34] up with kind of the idea of actually like sitting down and showing exactly what's happening to her in therapy and how she brings that out into the real world? That's a really good question. And I actually got a lot of feedback that I should take those scenes out at the time too. So I, I feel as if now that readers have read it, I feel like a lot of people really liked those scenes and also find that they were useful, but a lot of like agents. And I mean, I had feedback that saying like, like, it's not, it's, it's nice to see, but it's not

[00:30:01] doing plot work in the same way, but I really still felt committed to keeping it in. Um, because I do feel like a major theme of the book is like discovering who you are kind of between the lines of like, kind of the, the own, the, the parameters that you've set for yourself, like what kind of the personal narrative that, or your own personal mythology kind of, of like conception of who you

[00:30:25] are, but then who you are like beneath all that. And so I feel like having a therapist kind of help hopefully do that work. I think it's both realistic. Like, I think that's how people do the work in real life. Um, it certainly is my own like experience. And a lot of those therapy scenes I feel like are inspired by like my own 10 years plus of like therapy work. And so I feel like, I just feel like

[00:30:49] that was like a good way to, to show her evolution, like to show her doing that work. And I think also it's always good to like have more depictions of therapy and, um, like in a realistic way. I mean, not it's, I feel like a lot of times it's not just people who have like an acute need. Like it's also, I think it should be very normalized that even if you don't have like necessarily a mental health diagnosis, which she doesn't necessarily in the book, but I do, but you know what I mean? Like

[00:31:18] if you don't like therapy is still very much like a, um, like an important tool that I think like everyone should use. It was important for me to include. Yeah. And it de-stigmatizes like you're, like you're saying like, I don't know why it wouldn't be more normalized on the page. Yeah. I think it's interesting too. Agreed. Um, so throughout, um, a lot of the book, Lee and William are not fighting for, but both working towards getting, um, essentially a fellowship

[00:31:48] with a very famous poet. Do you have like a poet that is like that to you where you're like, oh, I would kill to work with you. I would kill to study under you. Like I would kill for this. Yeah. I mean, I think like Erica Goh, who's that poet I feel like was kind of inspired by, um, there's a poet I really love named Morgan Parker. Um, and she, I really like, I feel like growing

[00:32:14] up and like taking English classes and learning poetry. I feel like so much of the curriculum is always kind of these, like these standard white guys, like, and I mean, and not that they haven't also made like contributions to poetry and like, we should also, we should study like a very wide, like swath of poets. But I feel like Morgan Parker spoke to me in like a way, like she, she's like a young

[00:32:36] woman. She's black. Um, she like writes about pop culture and about, um, just like, yeah, her experiences and she uses like her, her work is very like contemporary. Um, it's nothing at all compared to kind of like the, um, I don't know, pick like any traditional poet, uh, that I think is kind of mostly read in school. And so I, I just feel like I, I love her work and, and there's, I mean, there's a lot of like really interesting young poets doing interesting things that I feel like we

[00:33:05] don't study like formally, but we should. So that was kind of the inspiration for, for Erica. I loved her. Yeah. She was so fun. She was so fun. I wanted to just like sit down and be friends with her and just chat. So there is quite a cast of characters in this book. Um, we don't, obviously we don't see them as much as like Lee and Will because the other are main characters, but like you

[00:33:31] said you, you brought, you brought bits and pieces of like your own classmates into that. Were there any characters that you just felt like were your favorite to write? Like you put just kind of like a little bit more oomphed into them? I mean, for sure. I feel like I really liked the, I mean, the cast was actually bigger in the initial conception of the book. I had like six poets and six fiction writers, but then I had to like call too, um, because it was getting too unwieldy.

[00:33:58] So I initially had more, but then with the kind of extended cast, you want to make sure they're really like doing plot work. Um, they can't just be there, but I do feel like the people that I love are the ones who provide like comic relief. Um, so I love Houston, you know, I love the idea. And I feel like other, like, I think the people who read the book who know me will be like, oh yeah, like we know this guy. Like, I feel like there always is that kid like in school who is so funny and is

[00:34:26] just like, doesn't take anything too seriously, like in a really refreshing way. Um, and I think you needed moments of that because like some of the other poets are taking things really seriously, um, which is also realistic. And like, I wanted to show like a wide, uh, variety of like what kind of students are like, but I think like the people who just kind of are there, um, to provide some like levity, I think those are the ones who are really fun to, to write for sure.

[00:34:50] Yeah. I can see that. Um, so I didn't make it very long before I had to change my major because of life things. And, and I had taken like a job that would end up being my career, but I was an English major for a couple of years and I felt like you were reading my diary whenever Lee goes into like a discussion and everybody is like deep diving and, you know, picking apart in such like profound

[00:35:16] ways, this poem. And she's like, I might be dumb. Yeah. I might be. That was me. Yeah. Yeah. Was that like your, that was, I was going to say, is that your experience? Like you're not dumb, obviously, but like you feel it so much when you're like second guessing yourself. So yeah, yeah. I think that was definitely my experience, like both in college and in the MFA, like, I mean, you want to sound like smart and I feel like, you know, you, you're not being like a vet, especially

[00:35:45] in the MFA, you're not really getting grades in the same way, like in grad school. Like it was, it was like kind of a different experience, but you still want to impress, you know, you want people to think that like you're smart. And I feel like sometimes people would send in poems and I'm like, I don't know what the fuck that was about. Like I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, it's just kind of like, this is so like, like what? Like, this represents death and the rebirth of time.

[00:36:11] Yeah, exactly. And you're like, what? I thought it was that tree. Yeah, exactly. Like how is it that deep? But so a hundred percent, like, I feel like I consistently felt like that. And I mean, people probably felt that about my own, like my work too. Like, I feel like we all just brought our own selves to the page and like, I mean, but that was also like a fair question. Like, I think at some point when we got more comfortable with each other,

[00:36:36] like we were able to kind of say like, what do you mean? Yeah. You're going to explain this like I'm five. Yeah. Like you were able allowed to like poke holes kind of in like a constructive way. Like, uh, I really like this, but like, I really don't get it. Like, is there a way that we can like make it a bit clearer? I mean, so I feel like those were legitimate questions to have, but I think it took a couple months to really get comfortable with that. I feel like at the beginning it was like, Oh God, like, it's so scary. You're going to fist fight me if I say this.

[00:37:03] Yeah. I mean, it's so scary to like critique your work in public and like in the book, you're not allowed to talk when people are doing it. You just have to kind of take it. Like they're all like discussing your poem in front of you. Um, and you have to be totally silent, which is good. I mean, you don't want to like, you know, sway the audience. You want to get like real feedback, but it's so annoying. I mean, it's very frustrating. I'm going to throw up. Yeah. It's really frustrating to have people like just misinterpret your words for six minutes and you just have to listen. Like there's nothing you can do. You can't say you're reading it wrong.

[00:37:33] Yeah, exactly. Cause I mean, what you brought to the page is what you brought. Like it's, I mean, so I mean, that's like, that's like really, it's scary work. I feel like for sure. Did you have to stay silent or did they let you like respond where, where your situations like in the book where like, you can't say anything? Yeah. You can't say anything. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's like straight from real life. That's like, I feel like that's a pretty typical workshop model. So it's very, yeah, it's really weird. So I think it's good. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it helps.

[00:38:02] You're just fine. I'm sure. Yeah. So I think that brings us to kind of now in publishing with a novel, right? I mean, your book comes out on Tuesdays, but there's been early reviews. There's been early readers and everything. Yeah. So how do you think that your experience in your MFA program kind of got you prepared for the, the world of publishing like fiction and, and building up that spine or

[00:38:29] I don't know, like, is it still just a scary? Cause I'm nervous now. Yeah, no, I mean, yes and no, like in some ways getting feedback from like other writers, I think is a really different experience than getting feedback from just like readers who are not writers. I feel like other writers tend to really like give you more of the benefit of the doubt or like get like, they kind of like, they understand the challenges as well of like, of writing something and being like misunderstood or

[00:38:58] whatever. And so I feel like they tend to be a bit more generous. I feel like with readers who don't have like any background in writing or maybe no art in general. Like, I think, I think a lot of people who are artists of some kind or just like people who are makers, creators, like people who are producing something and then like somehow giving it to the public. Like, I feel like that's like a different mindset, but no, I would say like, it still feels pretty, it feels pretty rough just to

[00:39:23] feel kind of misunderstood, I guess. Like I find that that's really, I mean, just like with anything, it's like, if you, if you feel like you're not being seen, like that's like a shitty feeling, you know? So I feel like it has been tough kind of to, to grapple with some of this, but yeah, I mean, I think you do just kind of have to have a really thick skin because yeah, people, I mean, it's so subjective. It's so subjective and isn't beautiful to live in a world where we all

[00:39:51] like, like different things and have like, like, I think it's ultimately good, but it definitely is like, I mean, I had to block Goodreads. Like I had to like set parental controls basically on my computer. It's just not healthy. I feel like to bring in, like, where I don't think we're built for this kind of feedback, like, you know, right. Yeah. A wider audience. Yeah. A lot of things. Yeah. And a lot of leaning on your people. Right. Which I think, I think that's one of the greatest things about like the creative community is that

[00:40:18] there's always somebody you can lean on somebody who has been there or been in a situation. Yeah. For sure. For sure. So I just have kind of a lighthearted, fun question based on several references. I have to assume you're Swifty. Yes. So if you had to pick one Taylor Swift song to represent this book, what would it be? Oh, I know. I feel like during the break, I was like, I should be thinking about this. But then

[00:40:45] I was doing too much tech work. I couldn't really think about it. I feel like, I feel like I always go to the tortured poets department. I mean, I feel like that entire album is like quite, I feel like a lot, it's about misunderstandings and like kind of, I don't know, like writing and writers and stuff. I mean, it's so hard. I don't know. It's a good question. I should think better. I should think more about this. I feel like a couple people on bookstagram have like

[00:41:12] created like a bunch of ideas for this. I think a lot about like false God, like something kind of like sultry and like kind of like wanting someone from afar. Like I feel like that could be good. I don't know. Are you guys Swifties? Like casual Swifties. Yandy's like, no. I dabble. I don't not like her at all. That's not that. I, um, it's a, it's a whole, I'm an emo music kid.

[00:41:37] Yeah. That. And also we're very, we're very like eat the rich here. Um, and like, and it just feels like, yeah, Taylor's amazing and everything, but also she's a billionaire, which is like, so I struggle with that. Yeah. So every time I see a video of her where she's like, I'm not super relevant to her. Yeah. Yeah. I like the videos where like she goes to the children's hospital and the little girl says like, I hope I get a Dyson from Santa and the

[00:42:02] next day a Dyson. Like, I love that. Yeah. She does like these random. Yeah. I don't think she seems like a kind person. No, no, no, but yeah. You're not going to be here in lyricism. You're not like, it's going to be hard to be her. I think she's a great storyteller, but she's a billionaire for sure. Yeah. I just, I think that's one of the biggest hangups. It's like, you can't be a, it's a moral failing to be a billionaire. You know what I mean? Like it's,

[00:42:29] it's hard to reconcile that. So I guess I'll listen to it. Like I listened to the album the day it comes out, but I'm not like going to get a cardigan or like a record or anything like that. So like Swifty light, Swifty light. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No judgment of Swifties at all. Yeah. No judgment. So many of my friends are Swifties. I love them all so much, but yeah, it's just like

[00:42:55] casual fans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's definitely a question that you should, people are going to ask you this question on tour. No, for sure. Yeah. We're preparing you. This is, yeah, this is actually excellent preparation. I'm really glad we are like, yeah, perfect. All right. So a little more fun and light questions while we have you. I'm sorry to tell you these are going to be equally as hard because everything leaves your brain. Yeah. Everything

[00:43:23] you've ever consumed is going to disappear. So we have a segment on the podcast, which we call fictional boyfriend of the week in which we pick a fictional character that we particularly are fond of that week. It doesn't necessarily have to be a boyfriend. This week I had Will as my fictional boyfriend as well as Jen and Casey as my fictional besties. So like there are options. She's had a

[00:43:46] fictional grandma before. I guess I have. We've had fictional pets. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just whatever character is feeling like I need people to, to hear about them. Do you have any characters like that? Any comfort characters? Anybody you're like, doesn't have to be someone you've written. Doesn't have to be books. It can be movies, TV, just like favorite fictional characters.

[00:44:10] I mean, we recently just started our Schitt's Creek rewatch. My husband and I, which I love. I love that show. And I feel like in rewatching it, I just realized I love like Dan Levy so much. Like I love his character on that. And I just feel like I'm just so like endeared to him. And I feel like that would be a great fictional boyfriend. Like I just love, I love his, I love his whole vibe in that. It's

[00:44:39] just so delightful and relatable and kind of Lee-ish also. Like I feel like like Lee and him would get along. Like, I don't know. He's just very, he's just so real. So I, I, that's like, I guess one that's on my mind. Just love him. Yeah. That's a good one. That's a great one. See, I want Moira Rose to be my fictional mother. I mean, yeah. So yeah. Well, tell you what we're not gonna do. Yeah. I feel like

[00:45:06] she's a, I don't know if I want her as a mother. Yeah. I want her in my life for sure. I love Moira so much. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like maybe that's like the safer. The safer option. For sure. Yes. I love her. All right. We know we love your book. Definitely. But we want to know what you're reading or like what book you're recommending. Yes. I recently, I've been reading a lot because of,

[00:45:34] I like flew in from Sweden. So I've been on a lot of these like long haul like flights. I just like need to, to read. And so I just started reading Maine characters by Hannah Ornstein, which is billed as like a parent trap for adults, which I thought was quite fun. It's not a romance. It's very much like a sister story. But I like mixing it up with kind of the, I like, I just like in depth, like relationship studies kind of. And I feel like that's a really

[00:46:01] interesting one right now. It's set like in Maine at like a lake house. And it's like these two sisters who like they didn't know about each other, but now they're half sisters, but now they're like learning about each other. And their dad just died. And it's like this whole, this whole negotiation kind of of like who knew dad best. It's like this very psychologically like rich like thing that's going on. So that, that comes out in a couple months, but I'm going to do an event with Hannah

[00:46:26] in New York in two weeks. So I was like, I really want to read it early and like get to, so I can talk about it with her, but I'm really enjoying it so far. So that's what I'm currently reading. It sounds really fun. It sounds good. Yeah. We'll have to add it to our TBR piles. The never ending TBR. The never ending TBR. I know it's really like sick too. I feel like I, I just cannot keep up with like the, as much as I want to consume. I hate it. Yeah.

[00:46:54] I follow this. I follow this bookstore in New York, which I'm in Georgia. So it's like, I actually, I did randomly happen upon it on a trip one time and walked in and I was like, oh my God, this is the store. Anyway, she does a new book Tuesday video every week. And it's like stacks that are this tall. And it's like every Tuesday, there's a hundred books that came out. How do you keep up? You don't. How do you keep up with that? I don't know. You can't. You can't. No. I know. It sucks. It's hard being a bookish person. Yeah.

[00:47:23] For sure. Especially when we have to like work and stuff. It's like, I would love to just quit. Yes. Exactly. Quit the job and just read. Like, oh man. That's the dream. That's the dream. Look, NetGalley really loved me this week because NetGalley gave me the audio book of You Between the Lines. And so I was able to listen while I was working. Yeah. I listened to most of it. Okay. It was so good. The narrator did a really good job. Yeah. I thought so. I thought she did a really good will.

[00:47:51] I wasn't sure what to expect because I didn't hear her will in the like audition tape. So I was kind of like, I have no idea what it's going to sound like, but I thought it was like very low and grumbly. And I was like, I was like, oh my God. I was like, I thought it was really well done. So I'm not a big audio. I actually like listen to audio books that often. I find that my mind like really can't do it. Like I have a really hard time like concentrating. Yeah. So I don't tend to listen to that.

[00:48:20] And so, but this one I enjoyed for sure. Yeah. Even though it's really weird hearing her. Oh yeah. I bet. I bet. Like somebody else has them. It's horrific. I mean, it's so fun. All right. We don't want to keep you too much longer, but we do have to give you a little bit of bad news. Now that you have been on the podcast, you're actually legally obligated to come back for all future book releases. I'm so sorry. We don't make it. I'm not. I'm not. I'll take it.

[00:48:49] I would love to. And speaking of future book releases, can you tell us anything about what you're working on now? What comes next? I can't give you specific details, but, you know, I think every book I write is going to have the same kind of high yearning, high sexual tension, high angst formula. So I feel like that's, that's kind of what I want to do and what I live for. Oh man.

[00:49:17] I want just like messy, will they, won't they? So it will be more of that, but we'll see like what it will take the form of. But yeah. RIP your DMs. But I love it. I love you in your DMs. It's unhinged in a great way. I was like, I'm so sorry. You're probably asleep. And here's everything that's happening right now. I wasn't asleep. And then I, yeah, I get it. And I wake up and I'm like, ha ha. Karen's here. I love it. It's happening. Yeah. Okay.

[00:49:47] Well, everybody, when this episode comes out, You Between the Lines is out. So you can go pick up this gorgeous book, walk into a bookstore and grab a copy. Katie is, I think you're done with tour by the time the episode comes out. When, when, when does your tour end? Like the 18th-ish? No. Oh, 18th is pub day. I'm confusing. The 24th. Oh, okay. So you've got some, you've got some, check out her website. Figure out if you can go see her. Please do. That'll, do it, do it, do it for me. Because I can't go see her.

[00:50:17] And I'm very sad about it. I know. But at least we could do this. So I'm very, super nice. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for doing this. This has been so much fun. I know it was kind of like insane trying to coordinate with all the time zones and all the travel and stuff. So we're very grateful. So thank you for having me. Thank you. All right. Well, we'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye. Bye. Oh my gosh. She's so fun. I love her. I really, I really did.

[00:50:46] I like the moment this book was announced, I slid into her DMs and I was like, you don't know me, but we're, we're best friends now. I'm so sorry. Sorry. Not sorry. Seriously. I've read, if it weren't for the fact that I was reading late into the night and I had not had any sleep prior, then I would have read this in one sitting. But alas, I have to sleep. It was so excellent. I almost listened to most of it yesterday. I had like, yeah, no, it was one day. Yesterday was, uh, you're fairly invited. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:51:16] So this one was almost in one day. I think I had like three chapters left, but I like passed out. Right. I was like, it was like two in the morning and I'm like, if I don't get some sleep right now, I will literally die. Yeah. I will be a monster tomorrow. So yeah. Oh, I'm so excited. That was so much fun. I'm so glad we were able to make that happen. Yay. All right. Time for some announcements. Now it's announcing time. Yay. Okay. So next week we are chatting with Melissa Landers, author of The Half King.

[00:51:44] Uh, this book is out now, so y'all can go pick up a copy and read it before our interview so that you can follow along a little bit. I feel like it's like a little bit deeper if you've read the book, you know what I mean? Yeah. Not that you have to, to listen to our interviews, but it's fun. It's like you're in on a secret. Right. Um, so you can go pick up a copy plus there's sprayed edges, which are gorgeous. So yay. I'm excited for that. And today that you are listening to this, this comes out on the 21st.

[00:52:11] I will be or have been live on Instagram with Julie too, depending on when you are listening to this, because it is a 10 AM Pacific time that our Instagram live is. So, I mean this, you're hearing this and it's either too late or just on time. So yeah. That's happening. Check the time, pause, if it's close to 10 PST, go watch it live and then come back. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's all I have.

[00:52:42] Yeah. I don't have any except for, remember, if you want to get in on the Fable Book Club with Brianne Randall in March, just let me know and I can get you an invite link. Heck yes. That'll be so much fun. Yeah. We're talking spell strings and forgotten things. Yay. And now it's time for a spiel. Yeah. Yeah. All right, friends. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, follow, and subscribe wherever you are listening to us. Please follow us on social media. We are at TheIncoherentFangirl on all the things.

[00:53:10] Head to their website, TheIncoherentFangirl.com, where you can also stream all of our episodes as well as read our blog. Subscribe to our Patreon for early access to full video episodes or early podcast episodes and exclusive bonus content. Eventually, I think Printify is going to allow us to make coupons. So there will eventually be exclusive coupons for our merch shop, which you can head over to TheIncoherentFangirl.com to get any of our merch from there.

[00:53:38] If you have any comments, questions, concerns, suggestions, design ideas you want to tell us, we're pretty. And also wish me well so that I don't die from this illness that is murdering me. We would really appreciate all of that in our inbox. You're better by the time they're listening. We're manifesting. Thank you. You're not so sick by the 21st. Good Lord. That would be... I don't even want to think about that. Yeah. Send us an email, y'all. TheIncoherentFangirl at gmail.com. We love hearing from you.

[00:54:08] And of course, one last way to support the podcast is to rate and review on whatever platform you're listening to us on. You know we love words, so give us all of them. She is at Mandy Perv on all things. She is at Ms. Made in China on all the things. And once you've followed us on social media and you've followed the podcast on social media, you can head over and do some self-care because the unprecedented times that we're in requires that of you. I miss the precedented times, but at least we have besties. I do. I do miss the precedented times.

[00:54:38] But if you need some self-care shopping, here's where to go. You can head over to HereComesToNerd.com, get you some cute artsy and pin goodies. Use code FANGIRL to get 20% off your first order. Then you're going to head over to OnceUponABookClub.com and get a subscription, buy a standalone box, or any extras that they may have. We have two codes that you can use. We love you no matter which one you use. We don't care which one you choose. They just do not stack.

[00:55:05] So you're going to use either the code MANDY10 or KARENT10 for 10% off. But if you don't spell Karen right, you'll get 0% off and we're going to write a really mean poem about you. It's true. Very true. We are definitely notes here. I do also want to mention that Once Upon a Book Club just teased an upcoming limited edition or limited time box that is very, very clearly going to be Say You'll Remember Me by Abby Jimenez.

[00:55:33] And I believe that they said they're doing an exclusive, I don't know if it's an exclusive edition or just an exclusive dust jacket, because it is Abby's first hardcover release. So if you are an Abby Jimenez fan, of which we are definitely here, stay tuned and keep an eye on that. And as far as I know, our coupon codes will apply to that as well. Because there's not very many limits to what you can use code on.

[00:56:02] But next up, once you have done all your book box shopping, you're going to need a really excellent fantasy series to get you through. She gestures vaguely. Head over to AmberDLewis.com. You're going to add like 10 of everything to your cart. Use code FANGIRL10 and you'll get 10% off the 10 of everything, which means you have officially gotten one of everything for free. That is how math works. Science and math. I mean, just listen to us. We know.

[00:56:32] Definitely. And last but certainly not least, you're going to go support the show husband. So you're going to follow Searchers Believe on all the things. That's his paranormal investigation group. If you want some Searchers merch designed by yours truly, you can head to searchersbelieve.com slash shop and use code FANGIRL10 for 10% off there. Also have, you can follow the Paranormal Mind on everything.

[00:56:58] That's his spooky podcast, which is hopefully coming back very soon. And then last but certainly not least, you're going to go follow Stream Beacon TV on everything. This is our new streaming platform, which is paranormal, true crime, horror content. Lots of exciting things coming down the pipe with them. I think it's out now, so I think I can say it. Do you know Justin Nunley from TikTok? You don't really TikTok that much. No, not much.

[00:57:26] This is this dude who like reacts to videos and he'll go, listen, did you know? And then he'll do like this crazy fact. He's got like 7 million followers. He's doing a Beacon video this week. Yeah, so cool things are happening. And if you'd like to subscribe to Beacon, you'll go to StreamBeaconTV.com and use code FANGIRL10. You'll get 10% off of your subscription. Yay! Yay, Shelsen!

[00:57:53] I would also like to say how proud I am of you for not giggling through the Beacon TV. I know. You struggled. I was like, let me look anywhere else but at Mandy so that she doesn't feel like I'm staring her down. You did great. I'm proud of you, Bestie. Thank you. All right, friends. That was the incoherent fangirl. That was the incoherent fangirl. Hopefully I won't sound like this next week. You won't. You won't.

[00:58:21] Thank you so much for listening. We love you. We love you. Bye. We are sponsored by our friends at Here Comes the Nerd. Pins, stickers, magnets, and more. Here Comes the Nerd has happy art for all fandom-loving hearts. New customers can use coupon code FANGIRL during checkout for 20% off their first order at herecomesthenerd.com. Coupon applies to ready-to-ship items only. Coupon applies to ready-to-ship items only.